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welcome to skeptic Oh where we explore

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controversial science and spirituality

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with leading researchers thinkers and

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their critics

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I'm your host Alex Karras and now we all

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know that psychic mediums seem to offer

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a unique view into these extended

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consciousness realms and I'm always

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talking so much about and although the

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best science seems to suggest that

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there's a reality to what mediums do

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science is backing that up like

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girlfriend Julie by shell has done so

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well we're also left with a lot of

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questions about the apparent

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contradictions unanswered questions and

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then when we get into in de science it

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gets even more confusing there's

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questions about what is the near-death

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experience really all about how does it

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relate to the after death communication

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that mediums are bringing back and then

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if we add to the mix things like

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terminal lucidity and shared end E's the

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whole field can get even more

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complicated fortunately fortunately

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fortunately of today's guest Deborah

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diamond who has used her extraordinary

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gifts as a psychic medium along with her

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really amazingly keen analytical

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abilities although as you'll find out

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it's not so surprising her former career

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where she was a very accomplished Wall

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Street money manager and professor at

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John Hopkins University where she taught

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students some of the tricks of the trade

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in terms of investments and investment

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analysts but she had that kind of

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background and then she's brought that

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with these intuitive psychic abilities

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that she's honed to bring us just a very

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unique an emotionally powerful

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perspective on the entire dyeing process

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so this is really I think going to be a

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terrific talk Deborah's gone way beyond

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afterlife communication and readings to

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actually doing research I think as I

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hope we talk about

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some groundbreaking research in in de

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science stuff that hasn't been done but

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is being approached in a scientific way

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and now with this latest book that we're

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going to talk about today Diary of a

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death doula she's actually shared what

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she's learned

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going into the hospice environment and

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bringing everything that she knows about

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in the ease and about after death

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communication into working with people

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who are approaching death this is really

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some amazing work

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Deborah your books are just great I

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couldn't stop reading I was absorbing

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and making notes and running out of time

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and that was my only limitation but I'm

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really really glad that I've met you and

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that you're joining me here today on

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sceptical so thanks so much for being

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here

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well thank you Alex it's a pleasure to

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be here and as I said I'm a big fan of

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yours so it's especially great to be

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able to share my new book with you and

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talk about my first book life after

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near-death and really this whole area as

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you said in your introduction about

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near-death experiences after death life

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after death and after death

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communication and really this whole

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issue as you pointed out of how science

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treats the and I'll put it in quotes the

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science of being a psychic and the

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near-death experience and and really you

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know it's one of those situations where

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never the two shall meet we live

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material world we most of us encounter

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the world through our senses through our

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five senses we hear things we see things

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we touch things that's how we relate to

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our life here on earth but the fact of

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the matter is that there's much more

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going on in the invisible world than we

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know and science you know you talk about

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how science looks at near-death

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experiences or psychics science doesn't

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even have a vocabulary to describe what

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consciousness is so I think that to rely

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on science to describe this invisible

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world is very difficult because we don't

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have the playbook yet we don't have the

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tools in the sign

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of the community to define what really

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happens in this their realm I'm with you

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all the way and I always bring that up

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that any talk about measuring

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consciousness is thrown out the window

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when we can't even define consciousness

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and by the prerequisites of science we

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have to be able to measure things and

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the only thing we can understand if

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consciousness is fundamental which is

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the paradigm shift well then there is no

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measuring you know we're back to the how

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many angels fit on the head of a pin

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thing will tell me that first and then

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we can measure the rest of it but within

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that and what I thought and we'll talk

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about this more as we get into this

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discussion this conversation but what's

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really cool about what you bring Deborah

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and I hope you can you can bring this

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out without you know everyone always

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leads in talking about you with this

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Wall Street analyst and CNBC commentator

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extraordinary background a Johns Hopkins

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University professor great stuff but

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what that really is saying and it comes

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through in your work is that you have an

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analytical mind and a scientific

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approach which is what we need so I'm

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all for talking about the limits of

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science but at the same time I want to

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promote the fact that you've taken the

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best of the scientific method really and

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applied it to your work like I mean it

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was extraordinary for me to think of the

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idea that in your first book and we're

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going to talk about both books today

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because I think if people are not

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familiar with life after near-death they

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really got to pick it up if they're

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interested in near-death experience and

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they haven't come across that book like

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I have to admit I had you know

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immediately bought it and said I have to

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I have to read this it's very affordable

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on Kindle you can pick it up but here is

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the methodology here someone says ok I

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have to apply multiple means of looking

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at this have to do qualitative analysis

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a good questionnaire then I have to do a

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complete interview and then Deborah says

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why don't I use my psychic abilities and

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do a psychic reading and combine that to

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the work

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and then as we'll talk about in your

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second book you kind of do the same

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thing in hospice only it isn't for a

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research purpose but it's to assist

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these people in the transition process

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you say I know I have these abilities

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these advanced intuitive psychic

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abilities

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why don't I apply that to the process so

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that is science that that we can utilize

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in kind of moving forward and answering

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some of these questions so I think it's

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great all about science thank you

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you did a just a terrific job of

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explaining what I've been what I do in

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both of those books and in my work my

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background is a very kind of left brain

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professional background I come out of

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the as you mentioned I come out of the

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investment business and I was an analyst

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to healthcare research analysts for the

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first 10 years so there is a system you

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know for how you do analytical work and

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I bring that with me even though I'm

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doing something different now as a

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psychic I like to use my background in

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my training and you know it seemed to me

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when I wrote my first book life after

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near-death you know I thought about it

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and I thought you know I'm a psychic and

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people come to psychics for all sorts of

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reasons they ask personal questions I'm

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also a medium and they like to people

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want to connect with those who passed

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over and that's all fine and I enjoy

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helping people but it you know all along

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it occurred to me that I had these

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abilities that set me apart I think from

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some other psychics and mediums I come

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from a very traditional analytical

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background and I wanted to bring that

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into my work because I think it's

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important it hasn't been done in the

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near-death arena you know when I first

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started doing research into near-death

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experiences my take on the category was

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that people were very focused on the

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narrative you know that is I had a

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near-death experience I went through a

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tunnel I saw a light I had a life review

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and I came back and people were

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fascinated by that and I get it it is

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extraordinary it's also been promoted by

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television and the movies because it's

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very visually

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that for most people is their experience

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what they'd heard about near-death

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experiences but I had an encounter in

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2013 I was asked to read for a famous MD

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ear who was struck by lightning and came

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back with abilities he didn't have prior

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to his experience and when I did the

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reading for him I was getting all sorts

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of symbols that were literally out of

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this world which is not a tradition you

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know that doesn't traditionally happen

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in the reading and after the reading I

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started thinking you know what happened

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to him why does he have these abilities

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and gifts and what's he supposed to do

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with them and what about other nd ears

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what do they get if anything and when I

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came home that evening I thought let me

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just Google near-death experience in

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After Effects let me see how much

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research has been done and I googled it

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and I found out there hadn't been any

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research done so I said well I guess

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I'll have to do the research now it

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wasn't a stretch because this was my

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background I was a Healthcare Research

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Analyst so figured somebody must be

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wanting me to do this you know how many

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psychics are there who are also

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healthcare research analysts but I

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wanted to bring a discipline to what I

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was doing I didn't want to just

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regurgitate people's stories I mean yes

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I know that they're interesting but I

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wanted to bring more legitimacy to it

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can i interject a question right now

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because as I was reading then in the

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book the one thing that was unanswered

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to me is I understand your interest in

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these extraordinary gifts that these

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people seem to have after the near-death

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experience and that becomes even more

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clear in the book because you're just

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talking felt like a guy who becomes

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really good at softball all of a sudden

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even though it's been kind of a nerd

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Hashanah athletic guy and now he's like

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great softball player or improve vision

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physical changes that can be measured

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but I'm wondering at this point as

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you're telling the story why did you

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think this was such an important aspect

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for you to research in a nice physical

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why did that draw you in the physical

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kind of changes that you found do you

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have any sense of why that drew you

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there absolutely

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and it's a great question because the

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stories that people were telling about

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their n DS and E's last four seconds or

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minutes of earth time and then they're

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over but the after-effects lasts for the

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rest of your life and that really hadn't

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been addressed you know people are

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coming back from these experiences with

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all sorts of after-effects from the

277
00:11:35,620 --> 00:11:32,470
psychological to the social to the

278
00:11:37,210 --> 00:11:35,630
physiologic and cognitive and this movie

279
00:11:39,130 --> 00:11:37,220
hadn't been discussed and you know the

280
00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:39,140
universe is dropping these people back

281
00:11:42,670 --> 00:11:40,970
on earth where they're to live the rest

282
00:11:44,500 --> 00:11:42,680
of their lives and they had lots of

283
00:11:46,810 --> 00:11:44,510
questions and they're uncomfortable and

284
00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:46,820
it's very hard to manage with one foot

285
00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:48,290
out in the universe and one foot on

286
00:11:53,260 --> 00:11:51,770
earth and you know I just felt there was

287
00:11:55,150 --> 00:11:53,270
a lot more to the NDE

288
00:11:56,590 --> 00:11:55,160
then just you know I went through the

289
00:11:58,630 --> 00:11:56,600
tunnel when I saw the light I thought

290
00:12:01,180 --> 00:11:58,640
there was much more to it and much more

291
00:12:02,710 --> 00:12:01,190
sort of behind the curtain said what was

292
00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:02,720
behind the curtain we didn't really know

293
00:12:06,970 --> 00:12:04,610
you know so I thought well that's where

294
00:12:09,430 --> 00:12:06,980
I can kind of put my shovel in the set

295
00:12:11,740 --> 00:12:09,440
you know in the dirt and see what I can

296
00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:11,750
find out and I felt that that would be

297
00:12:17,350 --> 00:12:13,730
really important and I found that after

298
00:12:20,380 --> 00:12:17,360
the book came out I have heard from

299
00:12:21,610 --> 00:12:20,390
thousands of m.d. years and Esty years

300
00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:21,620
people who had spiritually

301
00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:23,450
transformative experiences who said to

302
00:12:29,380 --> 00:12:26,930
me you know I didn't have an NDE but I

303
00:12:31,210 --> 00:12:29,390
had something and people don't talk

304
00:12:32,560 --> 00:12:31,220
about these experiences it's not the

305
00:12:34,060 --> 00:12:32,570
kind of thing where you go to work on a

306
00:12:36,130 --> 00:12:34,070
Monday morning and you're hanging out at

307
00:12:37,630 --> 00:12:36,140
the watercooler and someone says what'd

308
00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:37,640
you do over the weekend I went to the

309
00:12:41,890 --> 00:12:39,170
movies or I had a near-death experience

310
00:12:43,450 --> 00:12:41,900
I mean people don't talk about these if

311
00:12:46,510 --> 00:12:43,460
they talk about it to their families or

312
00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:46,520
family say you'll get over that so they

313
00:12:51,310 --> 00:12:48,650
keep this to myself at this point maybe

314
00:12:53,079 --> 00:12:51,320
we should make clear what you mean by

315
00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:53,089
the spiritually transformative

316
00:12:57,160 --> 00:12:55,130
experience we've talked about a little

317
00:13:00,400 --> 00:12:57,170
bit on this show but what are we

318
00:13:02,650 --> 00:13:00,410
including in not including in that I

319
00:13:05,020 --> 00:13:02,660
mean a profound Kundalini experience

320
00:13:08,410 --> 00:13:05,030
that someone has what while they're

321
00:13:10,810 --> 00:13:08,420
meditating is that it or maybe someone

322
00:13:12,190 --> 00:13:10,820
is Christian and they're catholic

323
00:13:14,710 --> 00:13:12,200
they're in church and they're saying the

324
00:13:16,750 --> 00:13:14,720
Rozin are overcome by this feeling of

325
00:13:18,730 --> 00:13:16,760
light in love is that a spiritually

326
00:13:20,990 --> 00:13:18,740
transformative experience how are you

327
00:13:23,929 --> 00:13:21,000
defining it what are the criteria

328
00:13:27,110 --> 00:13:23,939
yeah so it's another great question and

329
00:13:29,179 --> 00:13:27,120
the the classic definition for

330
00:13:32,090 --> 00:13:29,189
near-death experiences and spiritually

331
00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:32,100
transformative experiences is that you

332
00:13:37,300 --> 00:13:35,250
come back to life unable to go

333
00:13:40,610 --> 00:13:37,310
transformed unable to go back to your

334
00:13:43,100 --> 00:13:40,620
prior life that's it you know it's not

335
00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:43,110
how many boxes you can check off it's

336
00:13:46,009 --> 00:13:44,250
not you know if you went through a

337
00:13:47,449 --> 00:13:46,019
tunnel it's not if you saw a light it's

338
00:13:49,460 --> 00:13:47,459
not if you you know saw a beautiful

339
00:13:51,410 --> 00:13:49,470
landscape it's whether you come back

340
00:13:53,540 --> 00:13:51,420
transformed unable to go back to your

341
00:13:55,999 --> 00:13:53,550
prior life now with near-death

342
00:14:00,259 --> 00:13:56,009
experiences they tend to be pigeonholed

343
00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:00,269
as relating to trauma a drowning an

344
00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:02,610
accident a heart attack something that

345
00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:03,930
happened on the out but you know in the

346
00:14:07,759 --> 00:14:05,730
operating room spiritually

347
00:14:09,949 --> 00:14:07,769
transformative experiences don't

348
00:14:11,569 --> 00:14:09,959
necessarily involve trauma and sometimes

349
00:14:14,150 --> 00:14:11,579
people don't even know that they've had

350
00:14:17,059 --> 00:14:14,160
one but it might be something like you

351
00:14:19,670 --> 00:14:17,069
know and this relates to the to being a

352
00:14:22,189 --> 00:14:19,680
death doula and sitting bedside at

353
00:14:24,199 --> 00:14:22,199
Hospice if you're sitting bedside with

354
00:14:27,290 --> 00:14:24,209
someone who's actively dying or you sat

355
00:14:29,269 --> 00:14:27,300
with someone who actually did die you

356
00:14:32,269 --> 00:14:29,279
know that there's an air of the sacred

357
00:14:34,759 --> 00:14:32,279
in the room and that the energy there's

358
00:14:36,860 --> 00:14:34,769
a shift in the energy and many people

359
00:14:39,499 --> 00:14:36,870
who have sat bedside was someone whose

360
00:14:41,530 --> 00:14:39,509
past are exposed to that energy and they

361
00:14:43,759 --> 00:14:41,540
themselves go through some sort of

362
00:14:45,350 --> 00:14:43,769
transformation some sort of spiritual

363
00:14:47,869 --> 00:14:45,360
transformation because their energy has

364
00:14:50,179 --> 00:14:47,879
experienced a shift as well there's not

365
00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:50,189
a lot of work done on this there's not a

366
00:14:54,499 --> 00:14:52,050
lot of research but I can tell you from

367
00:14:56,389 --> 00:14:54,509
the I talk to thousands of people I give

368
00:14:58,819 --> 00:14:56,399
a lot of talks people come to readings

369
00:15:02,210 --> 00:14:58,829
and you know there just hasn't been a

370
00:15:04,790 --> 00:15:02,220
lot of work done on it but I see a

371
00:15:06,829 --> 00:15:04,800
pattern in my work I see lots of people

372
00:15:08,030 --> 00:15:06,839
who you know come to me and tell me they

373
00:15:10,189 --> 00:15:08,040
know that they're different they've

374
00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:10,199
experienced the shift and first question

375
00:15:13,369 --> 00:15:11,730
is you know I go through a checklist has

376
00:15:15,439 --> 00:15:13,379
this happened to you did you sit with

377
00:15:17,540 --> 00:15:15,449
somebody who was passing did this happen

378
00:15:19,879 --> 00:15:17,550
will this happen and inevitably you know

379
00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:19,889
they'll say yes that that that happened

380
00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:23,610
yes why well just saying you do that

381
00:15:28,429 --> 00:15:25,410
checklist then because I understand that

382
00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:28,439
the questionnaire kind of thing that you

383
00:15:34,850 --> 00:15:31,170
did in the research for your first book

384
00:15:36,410 --> 00:15:34,860
life after near-death and it's improv

385
00:15:38,630 --> 00:15:36,420
for the reasons I said it you're really

386
00:15:41,060 --> 00:15:38,640
an analyst he's kind of getting a

387
00:15:42,710 --> 00:15:41,070
scientist like you said in terms of when

388
00:15:45,140 --> 00:15:42,720
I asked you why you did it

389
00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:45,150
you were true scientist saying hey

390
00:15:50,180 --> 00:15:47,250
because no one had done it and we had to

391
00:15:52,250 --> 00:15:50,190
fill in that gap in the knowledgebase to

392
00:15:54,710 --> 00:15:52,260
you know pulled out the field I mean

393
00:15:55,850 --> 00:15:54,720
that's extraordinary but now I just want

394
00:15:57,860 --> 00:15:55,860
to be clear about this because I think

395
00:15:59,360 --> 00:15:57,870
your work is is so important I want

396
00:16:01,370 --> 00:15:59,370
people to understand and I want to

397
00:16:03,350 --> 00:16:01,380
understand how you do it so are these

398
00:16:05,990 --> 00:16:03,360
the kind of questions you'd you

399
00:16:08,690 --> 00:16:06,000
generally ask people when they come for

400
00:16:11,090 --> 00:16:08,700
a reading or is it just in certain

401
00:16:13,550 --> 00:16:11,100
circumstances that you would try and

402
00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:13,560
fill in those it's just in certain

403
00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:16,290
circumstances you know someone is either

404
00:16:19,820 --> 00:16:18,210
I mean they're reading for them or I

405
00:16:21,890 --> 00:16:19,830
meet them somewhere and then you know

406
00:16:24,020 --> 00:16:21,900
they know about my work and they start

407
00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:24,030
talking to me and they say I don't know

408
00:16:27,980 --> 00:16:25,890
I I don't know what happened you know I

409
00:16:29,930 --> 00:16:27,990
just don't feel the same you know and I

410
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:29,940
have a mental checklist I don't go

411
00:16:33,340 --> 00:16:32,010
through a whole checklist with them and

412
00:16:35,690 --> 00:16:33,350
and you know there's certainly no

413
00:16:38,420 --> 00:16:35,700
structure around it like there was in

414
00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:38,430
the first book but I know enough at this

415
00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:40,890
point that I can ask a few questions to

416
00:16:45,950 --> 00:16:43,890
dig a little deeper and you know it's

417
00:16:47,810 --> 00:16:45,960
funny you say well you know you had the

418
00:16:49,580 --> 00:16:47,820
scientific approach or an analyst I was

419
00:16:51,590 --> 00:16:49,590
on an investment board many years ago

420
00:16:53,450 --> 00:16:51,600
and we would go around the room and talk

421
00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:53,460
about the investments and when they came

422
00:16:57,680 --> 00:16:55,170
to me I would launch into you know

423
00:17:00,230 --> 00:16:57,690
ripping these companies apart and and if

424
00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:00,240
one guy said you are like the real

425
00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:02,730
analyst type so I mean that's just who I

426
00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:03,330
am

427
00:17:07,730 --> 00:17:05,610
you know I I'm a Virgo I get in there I

428
00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:07,740
ask a lot of questions and I you know

429
00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:09,330
pull it apart until I could find what

430
00:17:13,700 --> 00:17:11,450
I'm you know the answer or a pattern or

431
00:17:16,010 --> 00:17:13,710
you know after enough research you find

432
00:17:17,810 --> 00:17:16,020
patterns that start to you know make

433
00:17:19,910 --> 00:17:17,820
sense but with the spiritually

434
00:17:21,350 --> 00:17:19,920
transformative experiences they have a

435
00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:21,360
lot in common with near-death

436
00:17:26,870 --> 00:17:24,450
experiences and certainly I'm hearing a

437
00:17:29,870 --> 00:17:26,880
lot more about them these days because

438
00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:29,880
all of mankind is going through a some

439
00:17:33,310 --> 00:17:31,650
sort of transformation right now so

440
00:17:35,660 --> 00:17:33,320
there are lots of people who are

441
00:17:37,910 --> 00:17:35,670
relating to me that you know they've had

442
00:17:39,890 --> 00:17:37,920
some sort of shift I I don't have the

443
00:17:41,330 --> 00:17:39,900
answer to why that's happening or why

444
00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:41,340
all these slides happening to all these

445
00:17:44,390 --> 00:17:43,170
people but I can tell you that you know

446
00:17:47,630 --> 00:17:44,400
anecdotally any

447
00:17:49,250 --> 00:17:47,640
that I see quite a bit of it but with a

448
00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:49,260
spiritually transformative experiences

449
00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:50,970
they don't always know it's not like a

450
00:17:55,220 --> 00:17:52,410
near-death experience where they could

451
00:17:57,890 --> 00:17:55,230
say you know I I was in an accident and

452
00:18:00,320 --> 00:17:57,900
God spoke to me and you know this and

453
00:18:02,780 --> 00:18:00,330
that with st means spiritually

454
00:18:07,610 --> 00:18:02,790
transformative experiences they're a

455
00:18:11,540 --> 00:18:07,620
little more undefined okay fair enough

456
00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:11,550
I'll tell you what I have prepared some

457
00:18:16,970 --> 00:18:14,250
slides that might guide us I call it

458
00:18:19,490 --> 00:18:16,980
sceptical jeopardy and I'm gonna let you

459
00:18:23,090 --> 00:18:19,500
pick some of these but I want to start

460
00:18:25,730 --> 00:18:23,100
us off because we've got a reference the

461
00:18:28,490 --> 00:18:25,740
doula thing a little bit the death doula

462
00:18:31,340 --> 00:18:28,500
which is going to be a new term for a

463
00:18:33,620 --> 00:18:31,350
lot of people it is the title of your

464
00:18:35,630 --> 00:18:33,630
second book diary of the death doula

465
00:18:37,419 --> 00:18:35,640
like I said it's going to be a new topic

466
00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:37,429
for a lot of people so let's talk about

467
00:18:46,549 --> 00:18:42,690
what a doula is and how you came to work

468
00:18:48,020 --> 00:18:46,559
in hospice care and what that was all

469
00:18:50,299 --> 00:18:48,030
about for you because I think it really

470
00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:50,309
is interesting and it's interesting what

471
00:18:54,860 --> 00:18:52,410
happened so tell us about the doula

472
00:18:57,020 --> 00:18:54,870
thing yeah yeah I would love to and I

473
00:18:57,770 --> 00:18:57,030
and I love The Skeptical jeopardy that's

474
00:19:01,730 --> 00:18:57,780
so cool

475
00:19:04,070 --> 00:19:01,740
so I think many people have heard of

476
00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:04,080
birth jewelers these are midwives who

477
00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:06,210
helped usher life into the world and

478
00:19:12,140 --> 00:19:09,330
death jewelers are similar and that they

479
00:19:16,310 --> 00:19:12,150
helped to usher life out it's a

480
00:19:18,230 --> 00:19:16,320
relatively new concept nobody knows for

481
00:19:20,090 --> 00:19:18,240
sure how many death doulas there are

482
00:19:23,570 --> 00:19:20,100
right now but it's probably in the

483
00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:23,580
thousands and because it's a because

484
00:19:28,790 --> 00:19:26,850
it's something new there's every program

485
00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:28,800
and there are different programs to be a

486
00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:31,650
death doula every program is a little

487
00:19:34,940 --> 00:19:33,090
different there are some debt duelists

488
00:19:36,799 --> 00:19:34,950
who get involved with wills who get

489
00:19:38,750 --> 00:19:36,809
involved with the families who get

490
00:19:41,330 --> 00:19:38,760
involved with legacy projects who get

491
00:19:43,310 --> 00:19:41,340
involved with the funerals and as I said

492
00:19:47,120 --> 00:19:43,320
every program is different in my program

493
00:19:50,150 --> 00:19:47,130
I sit with a bedside with the actively

494
00:19:53,120 --> 00:19:50,160
dying and actively dying is defined as

495
00:19:55,730 --> 00:19:53,130
the last 24 to 48 hours of life now if

496
00:19:57,810 --> 00:19:55,740
you've had any loved ones who've passed

497
00:20:00,630 --> 00:19:57,820
you know that doctor

498
00:20:03,330 --> 00:20:00,640
and medical staff aren't always accurate

499
00:20:05,130 --> 00:20:03,340
in terms of predicting end of life you

500
00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:05,140
know somebody might think that they're

501
00:20:09,570 --> 00:20:07,450
going to pass in 24 to 48 hours and they

502
00:20:11,370 --> 00:20:09,580
could still be there a month later but

503
00:20:15,060 --> 00:20:11,380
generally these patients are

504
00:20:17,610 --> 00:20:15,070
non-responsive and their physical body

505
00:20:21,180 --> 00:20:17,620
is shutting down the reason that I

506
00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:21,190
wanted to be of service in hospice was

507
00:20:27,090 --> 00:20:23,170
because when my mother passed away

508
00:20:29,670 --> 00:20:27,100
almost 20 years ago hospice came to the

509
00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:29,680
house and they did an extraordinary job

510
00:20:34,500 --> 00:20:32,290
I was very impressed and one day

511
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:34,510
one of the hospice professionals handed

512
00:20:38,580 --> 00:20:36,970
me a piece of paper and she said you

513
00:20:40,290 --> 00:20:38,590
might want to read this and I thought

514
00:20:42,570 --> 00:20:40,300
you know it probably has to do with

515
00:20:44,870 --> 00:20:42,580
medication or maybe even funeral

516
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:44,880
arrangements and I said we'll decide but

517
00:20:51,270 --> 00:20:48,010
when I finally picked it up and I read

518
00:20:54,900 --> 00:20:51,280
it it said if your soul is ready and

519
00:20:57,270 --> 00:20:54,910
your body isn't you don't leave and if

520
00:21:00,930 --> 00:20:57,280
your body's ready and your soul isn't

521
00:21:02,850 --> 00:21:00,940
you don't leave when your body's ready

522
00:21:04,830 --> 00:21:02,860
and your soul is ready you leave now

523
00:21:07,350 --> 00:21:04,840
this was before I was working as a

524
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:07,360
psychic and a medium and you know I read

525
00:21:10,890 --> 00:21:09,010
this and I thought wow this is a lot

526
00:21:14,190 --> 00:21:10,900
more than I expected from Hospice

527
00:21:16,980 --> 00:21:14,200
it's a pretty profound and it stuck with

528
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:16,990
me and I knew that I wanted to do

529
00:21:22,410 --> 00:21:18,730
something to be of service I knew I

530
00:21:24,120 --> 00:21:22,420
wanted to work for hospice and I thought

531
00:21:27,690 --> 00:21:24,130
about it I thought about it for about 15

532
00:21:29,580 --> 00:21:27,700
years and eventually I I trained

533
00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:29,590
their training programs to be death

534
00:21:35,550 --> 00:21:33,250
doulas and I trained and I went to work

535
00:21:38,430 --> 00:21:35,560
at hospice but I wanted to sit with the

536
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:38,440
actively dying you know some people do

537
00:21:41,730 --> 00:21:40,450
volunteer work at hospice and they're

538
00:21:43,140 --> 00:21:41,740
they're going in there and they're

539
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:43,150
working with patients and helping

540
00:21:47,460 --> 00:21:45,490
patients who are still cognitive and you

541
00:21:49,860 --> 00:21:47,470
know may be around for quite a while I

542
00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:49,870
felt that because I'm a medium and I pay

543
00:21:54,660 --> 00:21:52,330
I speak with people who've passed all

544
00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:54,670
the time I felt that I could I would be

545
00:21:58,200 --> 00:21:56,050
very comfortable sitting with somebody

546
00:21:59,550 --> 00:21:58,210
at end-of-life and that's pretty much

547
00:22:01,800 --> 00:21:59,560
what happened you know a lot of people

548
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:01,810
are afraid including families they don't

549
00:22:06,060 --> 00:22:04,330
want to be there at that time but I felt

550
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:06,070
very comfortable with that and and so

551
00:22:11,010 --> 00:22:08,650
that's that's what my work is about

552
00:22:13,830 --> 00:22:11,020
well if I can add a little bit from the

553
00:22:17,340 --> 00:22:13,840
book that I found fascinating and we're

554
00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:17,350
two things one it reflects back to the

555
00:22:22,710 --> 00:22:20,770
first book where you saw a gap in the

556
00:22:27,060 --> 00:22:22,720
knowledge base and you felt like you

557
00:22:30,660 --> 00:22:27,070
needed to feel fill it and here it seems

558
00:22:33,360 --> 00:22:30,670
to me like you saw a gap in the service

559
00:22:35,970 --> 00:22:33,370
needs of in terms of how to serve people

560
00:22:37,610 --> 00:22:35,980
and you decided to fill it and that's

561
00:22:40,049 --> 00:22:37,620
not to say that there aren't many

562
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:40,059
wonderful people who are doing this work

563
00:22:43,260 --> 00:22:42,010
but like one of the stories you tell in

564
00:22:45,450 --> 00:22:43,270
the book that I think is interesting is

565
00:22:47,700 --> 00:22:45,460
one of your first days on the job while

566
00:22:48,900 --> 00:22:47,710
you're still training with the guy who's

567
00:22:51,570 --> 00:22:48,910
training you who doesn't have any

568
00:22:53,750 --> 00:22:51,580
psychic abilities he's and he's a man so

569
00:22:56,490 --> 00:22:53,760
it's this isn't just an exclusively

570
00:22:59,669 --> 00:22:56,500
woman kind of gender related thing it's

571
00:23:00,870 --> 00:22:59,679
a guy and he's of service too but I'm

572
00:23:03,660 --> 00:23:00,880
burying the lede here

573
00:23:07,460 --> 00:23:03,670
you noticed that he's touching people

574
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:07,470
and that when he touches people your

575
00:23:13,650 --> 00:23:10,210
sensibility as a psychic medium-- tells

576
00:23:16,620 --> 00:23:13,660
you that that might be shifting them in

577
00:23:19,620 --> 00:23:16,630
a way between these two worlds of

578
00:23:22,980 --> 00:23:19,630
extended consciousness in this world it

579
00:23:25,590 --> 00:23:22,990
might not be what's best for them at the

580
00:23:28,770 --> 00:23:25,600
time and you say oh I make a mental note

581
00:23:32,220 --> 00:23:28,780
to myself that maybe this is something I

582
00:23:34,110 --> 00:23:32,230
need to understand better so that's the

583
00:23:37,049 --> 00:23:34,120
beginning of this journey that you take

584
00:23:39,510 --> 00:23:37,059
as a duel where you're bringing all this

585
00:23:41,850 --> 00:23:39,520
extra deborah stuff you're communicating

586
00:23:43,980 --> 00:23:41,860
with them telepathically you know the

587
00:23:46,169 --> 00:23:43,990
person sitting there and to everyone

588
00:23:47,910 --> 00:23:46,179
else at the hospice and they're good but

589
00:23:50,340 --> 00:23:47,920
well-meaning medical people but they're

590
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:50,350
like yeah you later I'll communicate and

591
00:23:55,860 --> 00:23:53,170
you got well but gotta communicate with

592
00:23:58,620 --> 00:23:55,870
me cuz I don't telepathically or the

593
00:24:00,270 --> 00:23:58,630
family is grieving I wish I could you

594
00:24:05,460 --> 00:24:00,280
know say one more thing to them and

595
00:24:07,620 --> 00:24:05,470
you're able to say you can you don't lay

596
00:24:10,049 --> 00:24:07,630
on them a big heavy trip about hey I'm a

597
00:24:14,430 --> 00:24:10,059
psychic medium let me tell you it's just

598
00:24:18,060 --> 00:24:14,440
kind of what you bring to this to this

599
00:24:20,310 --> 00:24:18,070
process that is quite unique yeah

600
00:24:22,470 --> 00:24:20,320
well just to be clear I got into this

601
00:24:25,519 --> 00:24:22,480
work because I wanted to be a Sur

602
00:24:28,590 --> 00:24:25,529
I just felt that it was something just I

603
00:24:31,470 --> 00:24:28,600
like to help people and this is

604
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:31,480
something that I really felt a sense of

605
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:34,090
purpose about so it wasn't so much to

606
00:24:40,769 --> 00:24:37,090
fill in the gap in knowledge it wasn't

607
00:24:43,110 --> 00:24:40,779
exactly like the first book although you

608
00:24:45,690 --> 00:24:43,120
know let's let's face it I'm a medium

609
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:45,700
and and we're dealing here with people

610
00:24:49,289 --> 00:24:48,010
with end-of-life and lots of things

611
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:49,299
happen at the end of life in the

612
00:24:54,389 --> 00:24:51,250
invisible world that's not recognized by

613
00:24:55,889 --> 00:24:54,399
medical science so you know I didn't

614
00:24:57,960 --> 00:24:55,899
know what kind of experience I was going

615
00:25:00,720 --> 00:24:57,970
to have sitting bedside at hospice I had

616
00:25:04,260 --> 00:25:00,730
no idea I was going in there to serve

617
00:25:06,060 --> 00:25:04,270
just like any other death doula but you

618
00:25:07,980 --> 00:25:06,070
know in fact there is so much going on

619
00:25:08,970 --> 00:25:07,990
and the experience at end of life is so

620
00:25:11,159 --> 00:25:08,980
medicalised

621
00:25:12,750 --> 00:25:11,169
you know 150 years ago people used to

622
00:25:17,220 --> 00:25:12,760
die at home surrounded by their families

623
00:25:19,590 --> 00:25:17,230
and you know recent more recently now

624
00:25:22,110 --> 00:25:19,600
you know death has moved into the

625
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:22,120
hospice and hospital setting most people

626
00:25:26,610 --> 00:25:23,770
say that they want to die at home most

627
00:25:30,029 --> 00:25:26,620
of them do not die at home

628
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:30,039
and I think that's one of the reasons

629
00:25:34,620 --> 00:25:31,570
there's such a great fear of death

630
00:25:37,500 --> 00:25:34,630
that's one of the things that's really I

631
00:25:41,130 --> 00:25:37,510
think rewarding about the book diary of

632
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:41,140
a death doula is it is a diary and it

633
00:25:45,419 --> 00:25:43,210
starts at the very beginning of this

634
00:25:48,899 --> 00:25:45,429
service work that you do so we kind of

635
00:25:52,380 --> 00:25:48,909
travel with you as you are this unsure

636
00:25:55,980 --> 00:25:52,390
newbie who's thinks this might be a

637
00:25:57,930 --> 00:25:55,990
place for them to serve but then you

638
00:26:01,049 --> 00:25:57,940
have to experience that and at the end

639
00:26:04,860 --> 00:26:01,059
you know you're you're quite comfortable

640
00:26:08,399 --> 00:26:04,870
with not only the routine of the of the

641
00:26:11,100 --> 00:26:08,409
hospice organization and the hospice

642
00:26:14,340 --> 00:26:11,110
facility but with your own abilities and

643
00:26:18,060 --> 00:26:14,350
how you can serve so how did you come to

644
00:26:21,630 --> 00:26:18,070
decide that this should be a book and

645
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:21,640
what did you why why did you want to put

646
00:26:27,649 --> 00:26:25,210
it in book form in that way that's a

647
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:27,659
good question - I you know I'm a teacher

648
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:31,090
I've spent many years teaching I I think

649
00:26:35,279 --> 00:26:33,010
you mentioned that I was a professor at

650
00:26:36,630 --> 00:26:35,289
Hopkins I also taught in the business

651
00:26:39,780 --> 00:26:36,640
school George Washington

652
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:39,790
versity and i still teach workshops and

653
00:26:45,210 --> 00:26:42,570
i am a teacher by heart you know and

654
00:26:46,890 --> 00:26:45,220
books are way to convey knowledge to

655
00:26:47,940 --> 00:26:46,900
people I'm also a huge reader I don't

656
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:47,950
know if you're a big reader but I'm a

657
00:26:55,140 --> 00:26:51,970
huge reader so there's a lot to learn

658
00:27:00,210 --> 00:26:55,150
from this experience you know and again

659
00:27:01,950 --> 00:27:00,220
it's not I think the amount of

660
00:27:03,990 --> 00:27:01,960
information that's out there for people

661
00:27:08,130 --> 00:27:04,000
who are dealing with loved ones passing

662
00:27:10,530 --> 00:27:08,140
or death that's imminent the information

663
00:27:11,990 --> 00:27:10,540
is limited every experience was

664
00:27:14,970 --> 00:27:12,000
different

665
00:27:17,220 --> 00:27:14,980
no people no two people die the same way

666
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:17,230
because we're all individuals and you

667
00:27:23,070 --> 00:27:19,930
know the way we die is pretty much the

668
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:23,080
way we live and you know there's a

669
00:27:27,150 --> 00:27:25,090
unique set of circumstances that

670
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:27,160
surrounds every death and you know

671
00:27:34,230 --> 00:27:29,890
different family and friends involved

672
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:34,240
and all of that so I guess you know

673
00:27:42,090 --> 00:27:35,890
there was a takeaway from each of these

674
00:27:44,250 --> 00:27:42,100
experiences right and the takeaway is

675
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:44,260
universal you know death is a universal

676
00:27:49,020 --> 00:27:45,730
process and these takeaways are

677
00:27:52,890 --> 00:27:49,030
universal too so the book doesn't need

678
00:27:55,830 --> 00:27:52,900
to be read in order but it's worthwhile

679
00:27:59,550 --> 00:27:55,840
I think to read all of the all the

680
00:28:02,700 --> 00:27:59,560
lessons I think people you know my

681
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:02,710
feeling is that people who are going

682
00:28:06,660 --> 00:28:04,090
through something right now perhaps

683
00:28:09,510 --> 00:28:06,670
losing a loved one or heaven or have

684
00:28:10,890 --> 00:28:09,520
already lost a loved one may be tempted

685
00:28:12,750 --> 00:28:10,900
you're I think you're correct they may

686
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:12,760
be tempted to go to certain cases but

687
00:28:15,990 --> 00:28:14,410
you know what they may come back later

688
00:28:19,620 --> 00:28:16,000
and go to another case and read about

689
00:28:21,990 --> 00:28:19,630
that so you know I think the book can be

690
00:28:25,170 --> 00:28:22,000
read from front to back or in any order

691
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:25,180
that helps people well I pulled up a

692
00:28:29,850 --> 00:28:27,730
couple of just little snippets that I

693
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:29,860
pulled out that I thought we might talk

694
00:28:36,510 --> 00:28:33,850
about from the book these are lessons if

695
00:28:40,590 --> 00:28:36,520
you will from the 25 lessons diary of a

696
00:28:43,110 --> 00:28:40,600
death doula the first one was do you

697
00:28:45,820 --> 00:28:43,120
feel the love and what I thought was

698
00:28:48,340 --> 00:28:45,830
interesting about this is

699
00:28:49,779 --> 00:28:48,350
these people in in this case this is I

700
00:28:52,330 --> 00:28:49,789
don't remember maybe you remember if

701
00:28:56,529 --> 00:28:52,340
this is telepathic communication or if

702
00:29:00,369 --> 00:28:56,539
it was direct communication but this

703
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:00,379
person was experiencing this movement

704
00:29:06,489 --> 00:29:04,850
from life to death and they were getting

705
00:29:08,409 --> 00:29:06,499
what we hear from the near-death

706
00:29:10,869 --> 00:29:08,419
experience you know they're already

707
00:29:12,999 --> 00:29:10,879
encountering this unbelievably feeling

708
00:29:15,369 --> 00:29:13,009
of love of love and they're saying to

709
00:29:17,379 --> 00:29:15,379
you Debra do you feel it do you feel it

710
00:29:21,249 --> 00:29:17,389
it's amazing it's all around me do you

711
00:29:23,289 --> 00:29:21,259
feel the love so can you speak to that

712
00:29:23,859 --> 00:29:23,299
make it that one a little bit sure of

713
00:29:27,909 --> 00:29:23,869
course

714
00:29:30,249 --> 00:29:27,919
so while I was sitting as I was sitting

715
00:29:33,299 --> 00:29:30,259
bedside with with these patients who

716
00:29:36,070 --> 00:29:33,309
were actively dying I saw them

717
00:29:39,820 --> 00:29:36,080
journeying now we were told in hospice

718
00:29:41,769 --> 00:29:39,830
training that that patients at end of

719
00:29:43,479 --> 00:29:41,779
life or hallucinate you know what they

720
00:29:46,119 --> 00:29:43,489
what they're experiencing is not real

721
00:29:48,639 --> 00:29:46,129
but I can tell you as a psychic and a

722
00:29:51,789 --> 00:29:48,649
medium who's able to see the other side

723
00:29:53,919 --> 00:29:51,799
that if if what they're experiencing is

724
00:29:56,499 --> 00:29:53,929
not real then a hundred percent of them

725
00:29:58,680 --> 00:29:56,509
are having the same experiences you know

726
00:30:02,229 --> 00:29:58,690
so makes you kind of scratch your head

727
00:30:04,389 --> 00:30:02,239
and and beyond that you know you're

728
00:30:06,039 --> 00:30:04,399
correct that they were having the same

729
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:06,049
sort of experiences as near-death

730
00:30:10,119 --> 00:30:08,210
experiences now the near-death

731
00:30:14,499 --> 00:30:10,129
experience is a little different because

732
00:30:18,669 --> 00:30:14,509
I feel like that experience is tailored

733
00:30:21,190 --> 00:30:18,679
to people who are coming back it's sort

734
00:30:23,259 --> 00:30:21,200
of like the previews to a movie you know

735
00:30:24,669 --> 00:30:23,269
that they're getting the you know a

736
00:30:26,049 --> 00:30:24,679
couple of big highlights and then they

737
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:26,059
come back they haven't seen the movie

738
00:30:32,289 --> 00:30:29,450
yet but at end of life with people who

739
00:30:34,210 --> 00:30:32,299
are terminally dying they have something

740
00:30:35,649 --> 00:30:34,220
they share some of the same aspects of

741
00:30:37,930 --> 00:30:35,659
the journey of the near-death

742
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:37,940
experiencer people would end-of-life do

743
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:41,450
journey and they do feel the love and I

744
00:30:46,899 --> 00:30:44,210
felt or I saw it in every room that I've

745
00:30:49,570 --> 00:30:46,909
been in people's experiences made

746
00:30:53,379 --> 00:30:49,580
patients experiences may vary in terms

747
00:30:55,930 --> 00:30:53,389
of one maybe revisiting family members

748
00:30:58,090 --> 00:30:55,940
who've passed her in spirit not one

749
00:30:59,419 --> 00:30:58,100
maybe visiting a favorite place from the

750
00:31:02,229 --> 00:30:59,429
past

751
00:31:05,589 --> 00:31:02,239
and another may be journeying to

752
00:31:08,389 --> 00:31:05,599
fantastic realms in the afterlife but

753
00:31:11,299 --> 00:31:08,399
all of these experiences are very high

754
00:31:14,570 --> 00:31:11,309
vibration experiences vibration that

755
00:31:19,009 --> 00:31:14,580
doesn't exist on earth and we call that

756
00:31:22,070 --> 00:31:19,019
love and there are experiences that

757
00:31:23,539 --> 00:31:22,080
can't be you know what they call in the

758
00:31:25,279 --> 00:31:23,549
near-death experience world they're

759
00:31:26,839 --> 00:31:25,289
ineffable you can't describe them

760
00:31:29,419 --> 00:31:26,849
there's no way to describe them because

761
00:31:31,879 --> 00:31:29,429
they don't exist here on earth but they

762
00:31:35,690 --> 00:31:31,889
are a universal in this dying process

763
00:31:37,940 --> 00:31:35,700
and feeling the love and feeling at

764
00:31:42,159 --> 00:31:37,950
peace and feeling joy these are things

765
00:31:46,009 --> 00:31:42,169
that I saw and heard telepathically from

766
00:31:48,109 --> 00:31:46,019
patients over and over again it's it's

767
00:31:49,879 --> 00:31:48,119
very common you know so when your loved

768
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:49,889
one is lying there if you're if you have

769
00:31:53,690 --> 00:31:51,690
a loved one in hospice and you go to

770
00:31:55,879 --> 00:31:53,700
visit them and they are lying there in

771
00:31:57,619 --> 00:31:55,889
bed and they are non-responsive and you

772
00:32:01,119 --> 00:31:57,629
think there isn't much going on because

773
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:01,129
their physical body is leaving them

774
00:32:05,329 --> 00:32:03,570
there's actually a lot more going on

775
00:32:07,879 --> 00:32:05,339
than you would suspect now I have to say

776
00:32:09,829 --> 00:32:07,889
that some medical people you know some

777
00:32:11,299 --> 00:32:09,839
of the nurses in particular will agree

778
00:32:12,109 --> 00:32:11,309
with that they may not come right out

779
00:32:14,299 --> 00:32:12,119
and say it

780
00:32:16,399 --> 00:32:14,309
but they spend so much time with the

781
00:32:18,589 --> 00:32:16,409
patient's in a different way the doctors

782
00:32:20,149 --> 00:32:18,599
do I think many of them really truly

783
00:32:21,619 --> 00:32:20,159
believe that there is something more and

784
00:32:24,079 --> 00:32:21,629
as a matter fact I've often had many

785
00:32:26,329 --> 00:32:24,089
many nurses and classes and workshops

786
00:32:27,979 --> 00:32:26,339
that I've given and they believed I was

787
00:32:29,599 --> 00:32:27,989
actually just in a group a few weeks ago

788
00:32:30,709 --> 00:32:29,609
and one of the questions put to the

789
00:32:32,180 --> 00:32:30,719
group was do you believe in the

790
00:32:34,399 --> 00:32:32,190
afterlife and there was a nurse in the

791
00:32:36,430 --> 00:32:34,409
group and she said I couldn't do the

792
00:32:38,690 --> 00:32:36,440
work that I do if I didn't believe in it

793
00:32:41,269 --> 00:32:38,700
so I have up on the screen a couple

794
00:32:44,359 --> 00:32:41,279
other little snippets that I took out

795
00:32:48,019 --> 00:32:44,369
and I thought you might add something to

796
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:48,029
them one is just a blip of what it's

797
00:32:53,839 --> 00:32:51,210
really all about and then the second one

798
00:32:57,109 --> 00:32:53,849
from a different case is I had a great

799
00:32:58,700 --> 00:32:57,119
life but this is magical - and what I

800
00:33:01,249 --> 00:32:58,710
thought was interesting about this and

801
00:33:04,789 --> 00:33:01,259
again from a hospice kind of situation

802
00:33:08,180 --> 00:33:04,799
is it seemed to me like these folks you

803
00:33:09,979 --> 00:33:08,190
use the term journeying I'd also see it

804
00:33:12,950 --> 00:33:09,989
as they're really bridging these two

805
00:33:14,810 --> 00:33:12,960
worlds and I pretty like that that but

806
00:33:17,020 --> 00:33:14,820
third one cuz it came through a couple

807
00:33:19,820 --> 00:33:17,030
times it's like hey I'm not totally

808
00:33:23,540 --> 00:33:19,830
dismissing the life that I've had it was

809
00:33:26,810 --> 00:33:23,550
wonderful but this is the next step and

810
00:33:30,380 --> 00:33:26,820
I see that now and do you want to speak

811
00:33:33,230 --> 00:33:30,390
to speak to that at all yeah sure so

812
00:33:36,650 --> 00:33:33,240
you're you're correct they are

813
00:33:38,900 --> 00:33:36,660
transitioning they don't leave their

814
00:33:40,580 --> 00:33:38,910
memories behind so much they take them

815
00:33:44,090 --> 00:33:40,590
with them and they could have glorious

816
00:33:47,230 --> 00:33:44,100
and wonderful lives but they're on to

817
00:33:50,870 --> 00:33:47,240
you know as they transition they are

818
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:50,880
moving towards another realm of enhanced

819
00:33:54,380 --> 00:33:52,890
consciousness and what they're doing is

820
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:54,390
they're leaving their physical bodies

821
00:33:59,090 --> 00:33:56,130
behind but their consciousness is

822
00:34:01,580 --> 00:33:59,100
expanding and that's what provides that

823
00:34:05,660 --> 00:34:01,590
sense of joy and peace and love and

824
00:34:07,610 --> 00:34:05,670
magic as a medium when I speak to people

825
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:07,620
who've passed her on the other side and

826
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:09,810
they tell me how wonderful they feel

827
00:34:14,330 --> 00:34:11,970
they never felt like this on earth it's

828
00:34:16,910 --> 00:34:14,340
something that's only available when you

829
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:16,920
are a hundred percent consciousness now

830
00:34:22,100 --> 00:34:19,410
I have to I have to give a disclaimer

831
00:34:23,810 --> 00:34:22,110
not maybe not everyone in your listening

832
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:23,820
audience believes in psychics or mediums

833
00:34:29,900 --> 00:34:27,450
okay so I understand and if I were in

834
00:34:33,380 --> 00:34:29,910
their seat I may not believe any of this

835
00:34:37,430 --> 00:34:33,390
either so but what I tell you is true

836
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:37,440
based on my experience okay that does

837
00:34:43,100 --> 00:34:40,890
lead into a whole other kind of category

838
00:34:45,500 --> 00:34:43,110
that I thought we might talk about so I

839
00:34:50,150 --> 00:34:45,510
might even bring that up now and I don't

840
00:34:52,580 --> 00:34:50,160
know how quite to pin this down but for

841
00:34:55,580 --> 00:34:52,590
me it's not that I don't believe in

842
00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:55,590
psychics psychic mediums and I always

843
00:34:59,180 --> 00:34:57,450
throw that term in I could say mediums I

844
00:35:02,450 --> 00:34:59,190
could say psychics they're different

845
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:02,460
most the audience knows that all mediums

846
00:35:06,740 --> 00:35:04,410
are psychic but not all psychics mediums

847
00:35:08,810 --> 00:35:06,750
all that kind of stuff we've talked

848
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:08,820
about that a lot in this show but to me

849
00:35:15,500 --> 00:35:12,330
the science is in I mean Julie by shell

850
00:35:17,180 --> 00:35:15,510
is a PhD in pharmacology she knows how

851
00:35:19,340 --> 00:35:17,190
to run tests she knows how to do

852
00:35:21,140 --> 00:35:19,350
controls she brings it and she wrote a

853
00:35:24,770 --> 00:35:21,150
blur a very nice blurb for your book as

854
00:35:26,720 --> 00:35:24,780
well so she's obviously endorsed to a

855
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:26,730
certain extent that this person see

856
00:35:31,609 --> 00:35:29,970
legit to her but she knows how to do

857
00:35:33,620 --> 00:35:31,619
this kind of work and comes back doesn't

858
00:35:37,490 --> 00:35:33,630
look by the best way we can measure it

859
00:35:39,319 --> 00:35:37,500
there is a reality to this what I run

860
00:35:44,030 --> 00:35:39,329
into and I think other people run into

861
00:35:48,500 --> 00:35:44,040
is that a lot of people that have access

862
00:35:50,420 --> 00:35:48,510
to these extended realms come back and

863
00:35:53,329 --> 00:35:50,430
they all think they're 95% correct

864
00:35:56,650 --> 00:35:53,339
always this is what spirit told me it

865
00:35:58,790 --> 00:35:56,660
can't be refuted it can't be you know

866
00:36:00,650 --> 00:35:58,800
jeopardized in any way and it's like

867
00:36:02,390 --> 00:36:00,660
well then we have a serious problem here

868
00:36:04,579 --> 00:36:02,400
because I have a contradiction between

869
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:04,589
what you said this isn't what you said

870
00:36:08,260 --> 00:36:06,690
but someone who says well reincarnation

871
00:36:10,730 --> 00:36:08,270
can only happen three times

872
00:36:12,349 --> 00:36:10,740
reincarnation can only happen after 50

873
00:36:14,150 --> 00:36:12,359
years there is no such thing as

874
00:36:17,950 --> 00:36:14,160
reincarnation and I just used that as

875
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:17,960
one small example so I don't take that

876
00:36:24,260 --> 00:36:20,810
necessarily or I just interviewed a

877
00:36:26,359 --> 00:36:24,270
gentleman Courtney brown who uses remote

878
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:26,369
viewing and he's very accomplished world

879
00:36:32,839 --> 00:36:29,490
famous at remote viewing well he has his

880
00:36:36,079 --> 00:36:32,849
own take on what he's accessed from

881
00:36:38,930 --> 00:36:36,089
these realms and again he's 95% sure

882
00:36:42,710 --> 00:36:38,940
that he's right you know but as an

883
00:36:44,630 --> 00:36:42,720
analyst you know just like 80% of those

884
00:36:48,470 --> 00:36:44,640
analysts don't beat the market despite

885
00:36:51,319 --> 00:36:48,480
what they say you know there isn't an 80

886
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:51,329
there isn't a 95 percent accuracy here

887
00:36:57,859 --> 00:36:53,970
which really raises a couple of

888
00:37:01,280 --> 00:36:57,869
questions in terms of why there is that

889
00:37:03,319 --> 00:37:01,290
gap why there is a sense that when

890
00:37:06,290 --> 00:37:03,329
people are experiencing it when mediums

891
00:37:10,190 --> 00:37:06,300
are experiencing that access they feel

892
00:37:12,079 --> 00:37:10,200
like it's 100 percent correct and then

893
00:37:14,359 --> 00:37:12,089
yet when we analyze it even like you

894
00:37:16,579 --> 00:37:14,369
take dr. Byles work you don't as

895
00:37:19,670 --> 00:37:16,589
carefully as she does it it never comes

896
00:37:22,430 --> 00:37:19,680
out quite as high as they think so

897
00:37:24,770 --> 00:37:22,440
that's maybe out there a little bit on

898
00:37:27,650 --> 00:37:24,780
the edge but do you have any any

899
00:37:29,300 --> 00:37:27,660
thoughts I'm not black well you know

900
00:37:33,890 --> 00:37:29,310
really you're talking about a couple of

901
00:37:36,530 --> 00:37:33,900
different things so first of all mediums

902
00:37:38,780 --> 00:37:36,540
can be 100% accurate you know when

903
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:38,790
you're reading for someone who has lost

904
00:37:42,050 --> 00:37:40,050
a loved one and they want

905
00:37:43,580 --> 00:37:42,060
to connect with that loved one and the

906
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:43,590
loved one comes in and tells them

907
00:37:48,260 --> 00:37:45,570
something that is absolutely 100%

908
00:37:49,730 --> 00:37:48,270
irrefutable that there's no way I you

909
00:37:50,900 --> 00:37:49,740
know would know because I don't know the

910
00:37:53,180 --> 00:37:50,910
people what I don't know their loved

911
00:37:55,370 --> 00:37:53,190
ones you know so we can bring in

912
00:37:57,170 --> 00:37:55,380
accurate information it's not 100 Bri

913
00:38:00,080 --> 00:37:57,180
not all the time we're not perfect but

914
00:38:01,700 --> 00:38:00,090
you know often times we can't but I

915
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:01,710
think what you're referring to is that

916
00:38:06,830 --> 00:38:04,890
people have experiences and I don't know

917
00:38:09,290 --> 00:38:06,840
every case that you're referring to but

918
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:09,300
but and so you can correct me if I'm

919
00:38:17,090 --> 00:38:13,650
wrong but when people have out-of-body

920
00:38:20,660 --> 00:38:17,100
experiences or nve's or you know any or

921
00:38:23,860 --> 00:38:20,670
any kind of experience like that that

922
00:38:27,700 --> 00:38:23,870
experience is unique to them it's

923
00:38:31,790 --> 00:38:27,710
filtered through their consciousness and

924
00:38:35,060 --> 00:38:31,800
most of them come back with sort of like

925
00:38:37,250 --> 00:38:35,070
event Evangelic goals they have been

926
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:37,260
converted they are now sort of

927
00:38:42,500 --> 00:38:40,170
missionaries for the light and I think

928
00:38:45,140 --> 00:38:42,510
that's a result of this very high

929
00:38:48,380 --> 00:38:45,150
vibration that they return with you know

930
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:48,390
so think of it this way we are a

931
00:38:54,590 --> 00:38:52,170
physical body and let's just say as an

932
00:38:56,690 --> 00:38:54,600
example we're 99 percent physical body

933
00:38:58,460 --> 00:38:56,700
and 1% consciousness well after you've

934
00:39:00,410 --> 00:38:58,470
had one of these extraordinary

935
00:39:02,390 --> 00:39:00,420
experiences you come back and you're not

936
00:39:05,300 --> 00:39:02,400
exactly constituted the same now you

937
00:39:07,070 --> 00:39:05,310
might be 95 percent physical body and 5%

938
00:39:08,030 --> 00:39:07,080
consciousness you're kind of top-heavy

939
00:39:10,580 --> 00:39:08,040
with consciousness

940
00:39:13,390 --> 00:39:10,590
you've got received an infusion from the

941
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:13,400
other side and with that infusion is

942
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:15,330
particular information that's been

943
00:39:21,050 --> 00:39:16,890
imparted to you and it seems like

944
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:21,060
everybody gets their own imprint you

945
00:39:25,340 --> 00:39:22,770
know everyone has their own information

946
00:39:28,910 --> 00:39:25,350
that's significant to them and unique to

947
00:39:30,830 --> 00:39:28,920
them and they believe it and and I don't

948
00:39:32,930 --> 00:39:30,840
and I often tell people I feel like

949
00:39:35,540 --> 00:39:32,940
they're coming back as missionaries from

950
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:35,550
from the light so you know if you're a

951
00:39:40,700 --> 00:39:37,050
missionary you know you're obviously

952
00:39:42,290 --> 00:39:40,710
zealous you you believe what you you

953
00:39:44,990 --> 00:39:42,300
know what you've been told and you go

954
00:39:48,500 --> 00:39:45,000
off to try to convert people so you know

955
00:39:51,110 --> 00:39:48,510
and that's that's an explanation I'm not

956
00:39:54,349 --> 00:39:51,120
sure it's you know it's a hypothesis

957
00:39:57,979 --> 00:39:54,359
let's call it that but

958
00:39:58,939 --> 00:39:57,989
many people do come back from near-death

959
00:40:00,349 --> 00:39:58,949
experiences

960
00:40:03,589 --> 00:40:00,359
you know and I've touched them convinced

961
00:40:04,939 --> 00:40:03,599
that you know a particular I think like

962
00:40:07,249 --> 00:40:04,949
what you're referring to something

963
00:40:09,979 --> 00:40:07,259
religious or something that they saw is

964
00:40:13,699 --> 00:40:09,989
the absolute but and I think it is the

965
00:40:15,349 --> 00:40:13,709
absolute for them for them it's a unique

966
00:40:16,609 --> 00:40:15,359
experience and it's filtered through

967
00:40:18,890 --> 00:40:16,619
their consciousness and that's what

968
00:40:20,509 --> 00:40:18,900
they're left with and not everybody's

969
00:40:21,319 --> 00:40:20,519
like that but I think I know what you're

970
00:40:23,779 --> 00:40:21,329
talking about

971
00:40:27,439 --> 00:40:23,789
we've had a little light change in your

972
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:27,449
I think it's gonna rain here okay

973
00:40:34,519 --> 00:40:32,130
the natural light okay all right I've

974
00:40:35,900 --> 00:40:34,529
been known to blow out electricity sir

975
00:40:38,420 --> 00:40:35,910
but I don't think those would happen

976
00:40:42,709 --> 00:40:38,430
well that's one of the that's one of the

977
00:40:45,499 --> 00:40:42,719
MBE after a fair you know I I hear what

978
00:40:48,049 --> 00:40:45,509
you're saying I guess I was referring to

979
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:48,059
something a little bit different I don't

980
00:40:52,939 --> 00:40:50,249
know if we'd fall under the category of

981
00:40:54,949 --> 00:40:52,949
any after-effects which is what your

982
00:40:58,489 --> 00:40:54,959
first book is about but there's kind of

983
00:41:02,299 --> 00:40:58,499
two issues there one is that there are

984
00:41:04,579 --> 00:41:02,309
some inconsistencies and the way that I

985
00:41:08,180 --> 00:41:04,589
see it is that as you mentioned at the

986
00:41:12,140 --> 00:41:08,190
beginning we're all getting a slice of

987
00:41:14,660 --> 00:41:12,150
the extended consciousness one in a way

988
00:41:18,439 --> 00:41:14,670
that's tailored for us to in a way

989
00:41:20,509 --> 00:41:18,449
that's interpreted by us and three I

990
00:41:22,309 --> 00:41:20,519
have to believe and I don't have any

991
00:41:25,699 --> 00:41:22,319
direct experience with this so I'm very

992
00:41:30,170 --> 00:41:25,709
open to being corrected and guided in

993
00:41:33,410 --> 00:41:30,180
this but that these entities beings that

994
00:41:37,729 --> 00:41:33,420
are communicating to us have their own

995
00:41:39,890 --> 00:41:37,739
filters as well that seem to be still in

996
00:41:42,380 --> 00:41:39,900
existence that's the only way I can

997
00:41:44,390 --> 00:41:42,390
understand that we have these

998
00:41:46,759 --> 00:41:44,400
differences and I think it's kind of a

999
00:41:49,249 --> 00:41:46,769
glass half-full glass half-empty thing

1000
00:41:52,789 --> 00:41:49,259
where you can focus on the differences

1001
00:41:56,049 --> 00:41:52,799
and use those to you all a disbelief in

1002
00:41:59,299 --> 00:41:56,059
some of this stuff or you can focus on

1003
00:42:02,420 --> 00:41:59,309
more important I think similarities and

1004
00:42:05,599 --> 00:42:02,430
look at what those could mean I I think

1005
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:05,609
what you're referring to this this might

1006
00:42:09,240 --> 00:42:07,570
be a discussion for another probe

1007
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:09,250
but I think what you're referring to you

1008
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:10,810
know in terms of the entities that

1009
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:13,210
people are communicating with and those

1010
00:42:17,940 --> 00:42:16,090
entities having their own agenda if

1011
00:42:20,490 --> 00:42:17,950
that's what you're talking about

1012
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:20,500
I mean I I'm not I'm not suggesting that

1013
00:42:26,370 --> 00:42:23,530
I mean that's on the table to it you

1014
00:42:30,510 --> 00:42:26,380
know I've talked to at this point a

1015
00:42:33,590 --> 00:42:30,520
number of mediums and very you know I

1016
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:33,600
think as far as I can tell well

1017
00:42:38,790 --> 00:42:36,010
qualified mediums you know people who

1018
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:38,800
have been certified by the wind bridge

1019
00:42:45,240 --> 00:42:41,530
Institute Julie by show and other

1020
00:42:47,730 --> 00:42:45,250
mediums Steve level you know knows how

1021
00:42:51,330 --> 00:42:47,740
to do the work there are contradictions

1022
00:42:54,720 --> 00:42:51,340
between what they they are saying that

1023
00:42:58,530 --> 00:42:54,730
spirit is telling them and what other

1024
00:43:00,510 --> 00:42:58,540
folks including you are saying don't ask

1025
00:43:02,430 --> 00:43:00,520
me to kind of list you know here are the

1026
00:43:04,230 --> 00:43:02,440
contradictions resolve these here and

1027
00:43:05,940 --> 00:43:04,240
you know we gotta get these to the

1028
00:43:07,890 --> 00:43:05,950
bottom of get to the bottom of these

1029
00:43:12,030 --> 00:43:07,900
that's not what I'm saying what I'm

1030
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:12,040
saying is I I need to have a broader

1031
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:15,370
understanding of how that can be true

1032
00:43:20,580 --> 00:43:17,530
and I think you're giving us some of the

1033
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:20,590
bones of that in that everyone is

1034
00:43:24,750 --> 00:43:22,810
filtering it through their experience so

1035
00:43:27,420 --> 00:43:24,760
if I have a download or if I have a

1036
00:43:31,020 --> 00:43:27,430
reading I'm interpreting it according to

1037
00:43:33,630 --> 00:43:31,030
my life experience I wonder if the same

1038
00:43:38,100 --> 00:43:33,640
is it true on the other side and that

1039
00:43:40,710 --> 00:43:38,110
when we look at spirit quote-unquote it

1040
00:43:44,580 --> 00:43:40,720
does seem to have some different aspects

1041
00:43:48,570 --> 00:43:44,590
to it in terms of what spirit beings

1042
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:48,580
were talking to and where they're coming

1043
00:43:53,010 --> 00:43:50,530
from to you know and it's not a

1044
00:43:56,850 --> 00:43:53,020
universal thing as far as I can tell but

1045
00:44:00,630 --> 00:43:56,860
oh very open to any thoughts you might

1046
00:44:06,300 --> 00:44:00,640
have on is spirit spirit or is spirit

1047
00:44:08,790 --> 00:44:06,310
spirits so for me when I connect and I

1048
00:44:10,380 --> 00:44:08,800
call I call my connection spirit you

1049
00:44:12,990 --> 00:44:10,390
know some people call it the one the

1050
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:13,000
universal all God I call it spirit and

1051
00:44:20,690 --> 00:44:18,130
the information that I get I always ask

1052
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:20,700
to be shown only that in four

1053
00:44:24,859 --> 00:44:22,410
that's for the greatest good and for the

1054
00:44:26,569 --> 00:44:24,869
highest good and it feels clean to me

1055
00:44:29,349 --> 00:44:26,579
and people have told me that you know

1056
00:44:31,790 --> 00:44:29,359
that my information feels clean to them

1057
00:44:35,180 --> 00:44:31,800
there are lots of psychics and mediums

1058
00:44:37,310 --> 00:44:35,190
today lots and lots of healers and

1059
00:44:38,660 --> 00:44:37,320
energy workers and I and I think what

1060
00:44:40,220 --> 00:44:38,670
you're referring to is that there are

1061
00:44:42,859 --> 00:44:40,230
many people who are out there who are

1062
00:44:44,359 --> 00:44:42,869
not trained and who are bringing in all

1063
00:44:48,500 --> 00:44:44,369
sorts of information they don't even

1064
00:44:50,329 --> 00:44:48,510
know what they're bringing it and I you

1065
00:44:52,609 --> 00:44:50,339
know I see this quite a bit and some of

1066
00:44:54,349 --> 00:44:52,619
them bring in some energies that you

1067
00:44:56,270 --> 00:44:54,359
know maybe they shouldn't be bringing in

1068
00:44:58,750 --> 00:44:56,280
but what happens is if you're very open

1069
00:45:04,220 --> 00:44:58,760
on this side you know here on earth

1070
00:45:05,420 --> 00:45:04,230
those entities spirit whatever you want

1071
00:45:07,940 --> 00:45:05,430
to call it I think they're entities

1072
00:45:10,069 --> 00:45:07,950
beyond spirit I think of spirit as sort

1073
00:45:11,180 --> 00:45:10,079
of a pure universal energy but I think

1074
00:45:13,310 --> 00:45:11,190
there are other entities out there

1075
00:45:15,079 --> 00:45:13,320
they're looking to make connections on

1076
00:45:16,819 --> 00:45:15,089
earth and they're looking around to see

1077
00:45:20,630 --> 00:45:16,829
who's open and if they can find somebody

1078
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:20,640
who's open they hop on board and so that

1079
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:23,130
might explain some of this contradiction

1080
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:24,810
in terms of you know one person saying

1081
00:45:28,670 --> 00:45:26,970
you know my this is this is how it is

1082
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:28,680
and another person saying that's how it

1083
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:31,530
is I mean that whole book that a book of

1084
00:45:35,420 --> 00:45:33,450
books could be written on that subject

1085
00:45:37,700 --> 00:45:35,430
that's that's a whole issue that

1086
00:45:39,950 --> 00:45:37,710
probably needs to be wrestled with and

1087
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:39,960
there's no sling with it right now how

1088
00:45:45,950 --> 00:45:42,930
do we get around that because by virtue

1089
00:45:49,460 --> 00:45:45,960
of what you're saying you're saying your

1090
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:49,470
version of it is more correct more pure

1091
00:45:55,819 --> 00:45:52,530
and I get that I'm not arguing that I'm

1092
00:46:00,530 --> 00:45:55,829
just saying you have to appreciate that

1093
00:46:03,079 --> 00:46:00,540
kind of everybody says that so I and who

1094
00:46:05,420 --> 00:46:03,089
I just had up on the screen and has been

1095
00:46:06,470 --> 00:46:05,430
certified by wind bridge and is

1096
00:46:09,980 --> 00:46:06,480
obviously going through a lot of

1097
00:46:12,050 --> 00:46:09,990
training and tells seems to be of a good

1098
00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:12,060
heart and seems to be a good person I

1099
00:46:17,030 --> 00:46:14,130
don't even know if she would have any

1100
00:46:19,250 --> 00:46:17,040
like major differences with you but I I

1101
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:19,260
just have encountered that over and over

1102
00:46:25,780 --> 00:46:22,970
again if there's one universal spirit I

1103
00:46:29,030 --> 00:46:25,790
don't understand why we're getting back

1104
00:46:31,069 --> 00:46:29,040
contradictory and even if it's not a

1105
00:46:33,559 --> 00:46:31,079
major contradiction I am it's not some

1106
00:46:34,609 --> 00:46:33,569
kind of evil you know do some really bad

1107
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:34,619
thing contradicts

1108
00:46:39,229 --> 00:46:37,170
it's just like minor differences like I

1109
00:46:40,999 --> 00:46:39,239
pointed out about reincarnation where

1110
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:41,009
they're kind of matter-of-fact about

1111
00:46:47,900 --> 00:46:45,210
this is how reincarnation works and so

1112
00:46:49,609 --> 00:46:47,910
let's try and hammer that to the ground

1113
00:46:53,299 --> 00:46:49,619
a little bit further and then we'll move

1114
00:46:54,979 --> 00:46:53,309
on yeah well I mean reincarnation is an

1115
00:46:59,839 --> 00:46:54,989
East you know that's part of Eastern

1116
00:47:02,180 --> 00:46:59,849
religion that's that's a you hear that

1117
00:47:05,499 --> 00:47:02,190
what was that that's lightning and

1118
00:47:07,999 --> 00:47:05,509
thunder oh my gosh that's what I thought

1119
00:47:13,039 --> 00:47:08,009
yeah we brought this on we were talking

1120
00:47:14,870 --> 00:47:13,049
about the entities so you know in terms

1121
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:14,880
of reincarnation I mean that's a matter

1122
00:47:19,940 --> 00:47:16,650
of religious beliefs and I think they're

1123
00:47:21,979 --> 00:47:19,950
you know millions of opinions on that I

1124
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:21,989
don't have an opinion on that people ask

1125
00:47:25,969 --> 00:47:24,450
me about it all the time and I I don't

1126
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:25,979
know crying about it that's you know

1127
00:47:33,489 --> 00:47:29,729
it's it's not part of what I do you know

1128
00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:33,499
we're right there why would you

1129
00:47:39,049 --> 00:47:36,690
quote-unquote not know about it and I

1130
00:47:41,180 --> 00:47:39,059
don't mean that in an accusation away

1131
00:47:45,410 --> 00:47:41,190
like you don't know about it you're a

1132
00:47:48,349 --> 00:47:45,420
lesser medium it's interesting to me to

1133
00:47:51,769 --> 00:47:48,359
contemplate are there certain things

1134
00:47:56,029 --> 00:47:51,779
that that you would be more likely to

1135
00:47:58,670 --> 00:47:56,039
know because you've been guided in that

1136
00:48:00,140 --> 00:47:58,680
way or less likely to know you know one

1137
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:00,150
of the things I was going to talk about

1138
00:48:07,489 --> 00:48:04,410
with Marissa Ryan is you know her

1139
00:48:11,029 --> 00:48:07,499
encounters with for lack of a better

1140
00:48:13,309 --> 00:48:11,039
term alien intelligences alien beings

1141
00:48:15,380 --> 00:48:13,319
it's not a big part of her practice she

1142
00:48:18,019 --> 00:48:15,390
doesn't like lead with it like oh my

1143
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:18,029
gosh come to me if you want to talk to

1144
00:48:21,650 --> 00:48:19,650
aliens although there's other people who

1145
00:48:24,170 --> 00:48:21,660
do that but you just said hey this is

1146
00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:24,180
what I've encountered so now other

1147
00:48:28,249 --> 00:48:26,249
people will say other mediums will say

1148
00:48:30,019 --> 00:48:28,259
they're all about past life and past

1149
00:48:33,529 --> 00:48:30,029
life regression and that's just where

1150
00:48:36,799 --> 00:48:33,539
their work has led them so without again

1151
00:48:39,140 --> 00:48:36,809
without like trying to be accusation

1152
00:48:43,539 --> 00:48:39,150
Alima least just why do you think you

1153
00:48:44,839 --> 00:48:43,549
haven't encountered something like eff

1154
00:48:47,820 --> 00:48:44,849
reincarnation

1155
00:48:49,860 --> 00:48:47,830
past lives and other people have

1156
00:48:53,070 --> 00:48:49,870
and equally because I'm very interested

1157
00:48:57,420 --> 00:48:53,080
in it have you encountered this other

1158
00:48:59,640 --> 00:48:57,430
world's kind of thing of non-human

1159
00:49:03,420 --> 00:48:59,650
intelligence that resides on other

1160
00:49:05,550 --> 00:49:03,430
planets that is conflicts yeah so I

1161
00:49:07,590 --> 00:49:05,560
think I'll make a few comments and then

1162
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:07,600
maybe we can move on to you know some of

1163
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:11,170
the other other topics but in terms of

1164
00:49:14,460 --> 00:49:13,330
reincarnation and past life experiences

1165
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:14,470
that's just something that I don't

1166
00:49:18,720 --> 00:49:17,170
choose to go into and part of it is for

1167
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:18,730
some of the reasons that you've already

1168
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:20,890
suggested I have people come to me and

1169
00:49:25,830 --> 00:49:23,650
say I believe you know in reincarnation

1170
00:49:28,620 --> 00:49:25,840
but I'm going to come back as another

1171
00:49:30,750 --> 00:49:28,630
person and then somebody else's says you

1172
00:49:32,940 --> 00:49:30,760
know I believe in reincarnation but I'm

1173
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:32,950
going to come back as this or that and

1174
00:49:41,310 --> 00:49:36,850
it really it's it's a religious belief

1175
00:49:43,380 --> 00:49:41,320
and it's it's not that's what it is and

1176
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:43,390
people seem to be taking pieces of it to

1177
00:49:49,590 --> 00:49:45,850
you know suit their own framework or

1178
00:49:51,810 --> 00:49:49,600
their own opinions the work that I do

1179
00:49:55,050 --> 00:49:51,820
and when I do readings for people seems

1180
00:49:57,530 --> 00:49:55,060
to revolve around the platform that I've

1181
00:49:59,520 --> 00:49:57,540
laid and the platform is about

1182
00:50:02,340 --> 00:49:59,530
transformational experiences right

1183
00:50:05,490 --> 00:50:02,350
near-death experiences and you know what

1184
00:50:07,020 --> 00:50:05,500
happens at end of life so I you know

1185
00:50:08,340 --> 00:50:07,030
there's there's lots of ways that you

1186
00:50:12,030 --> 00:50:08,350
know there are lots of things I could do

1187
00:50:14,970 --> 00:50:12,040
I could you know I suppose get into some

1188
00:50:16,980 --> 00:50:14,980
of the things you're suggesting but this

1189
00:50:21,230 --> 00:50:16,990
is really where my work has led me you

1190
00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:21,240
know in terms of nd ease and end of life

1191
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:24,850
but you are correct you know in in that

1192
00:50:29,220 --> 00:50:26,410
regard people have very strong opinions

1193
00:50:31,650 --> 00:50:29,230
about some of the you know but afterlife

1194
00:50:34,770 --> 00:50:31,660
and past about past life and about

1195
00:50:37,230 --> 00:50:34,780
reincarnation and it's just something

1196
00:50:40,620 --> 00:50:37,240
that I I don't go there that's all I

1197
00:50:43,110 --> 00:50:40,630
just don't go there I get that and I'll

1198
00:50:46,350 --> 00:50:43,120
leave it alone but I do have to add I

1199
00:50:49,170 --> 00:50:46,360
don't see it so much as you know strong

1200
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:49,180
beliefs kind of thing if you look at the

1201
00:50:53,220 --> 00:50:50,890
research that everyone points to

1202
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:53,230
originally in Stevenson they're close to

1203
00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:54,850
you at University of Virginia and I'm

1204
00:50:57,320 --> 00:50:55,290
sure you

1205
00:50:59,840 --> 00:50:57,330
familiar with all this and then Jim

1206
00:51:02,030 --> 00:50:59,850
Tucker at University of Virginia who's

1207
00:51:05,540 --> 00:51:02,040
followed up on that research one they

1208
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:05,550
got interested in past life's work

1209
00:51:10,970 --> 00:51:08,010
because somebody gave him a big grant

1210
00:51:14,180 --> 00:51:10,980
from Xerox gave him a big grant and said

1211
00:51:16,550 --> 00:51:14,190
hey go look at this and they started

1212
00:51:19,010 --> 00:51:16,560
investigating it and from the religious

1213
00:51:22,940 --> 00:51:19,020
standpoint yeah they went to India and

1214
00:51:24,410 --> 00:51:22,950
Sri Lanka where it is in very much part

1215
00:51:26,510 --> 00:51:24,420
of the culture very much part of the

1216
00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:26,520
religious belief system but where

1217
00:51:30,470 --> 00:51:28,290
they've really kind of made hay in terms

1218
00:51:32,900 --> 00:51:30,480
of publicity and you gotta accept I do

1219
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:32,910
I've interviewed Jim Tucker except that

1220
00:51:38,780 --> 00:51:36,330
he's a honest researcher who's just

1221
00:51:40,130 --> 00:51:38,790
following the data the cases in the

1222
00:51:42,110 --> 00:51:40,140
United States that he has our

1223
00:51:45,530 --> 00:51:42,120
extraordinary you know the kid who's two

1224
00:51:47,330 --> 00:51:45,540
years old who sees the model airplane in

1225
00:51:49,790 --> 00:51:47,340
the window of a fighter pilot and says

1226
00:51:51,980 --> 00:51:49,800
mommy mommy that was me that was my

1227
00:51:54,350 --> 00:51:51,990
plane and then is able to tell this

1228
00:51:58,070 --> 00:51:54,360
whole thing so I don't think Jim Tucker

1229
00:52:01,010 --> 00:51:58,080
has some kind of pre-existing religious

1230
00:52:02,300 --> 00:52:01,020
belief that he's trying to support and I

1231
00:52:04,790 --> 00:52:02,310
don't think you're suggesting that he

1232
00:52:07,700 --> 00:52:04,800
does either he's just following the data

1233
00:52:08,060 --> 00:52:07,710
I get that you haven't been drawn to

1234
00:52:11,540 --> 00:52:08,070
that

1235
00:52:15,140 --> 00:52:11,550
so maybe made too much of a small point

1236
00:52:17,780 --> 00:52:15,150
but I do have to wonder why you know

1237
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:17,790
things work out that you are drawn to

1238
00:52:21,020 --> 00:52:19,530
the areas that you're drawn to and are

1239
00:52:23,630 --> 00:52:21,030
shedding light on it which is really

1240
00:52:28,610 --> 00:52:23,640
important but then these other areas are

1241
00:52:30,770 --> 00:52:28,620
kind of left out of your view I do I you

1242
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:30,780
know I I think it's just not supposed to

1243
00:52:34,370 --> 00:52:32,490
be part of my work you know there's an

1244
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:34,380
old saying you can do everything but you

1245
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:36,690
can't do everything well so you know

1246
00:52:41,720 --> 00:52:39,290
this is this is what I do and there's

1247
00:52:43,340 --> 00:52:41,730
validation and what I do I mean I read

1248
00:52:45,290 --> 00:52:43,350
for many people and I give them

1249
00:52:48,170 --> 00:52:45,300
information and you know they validate

1250
00:52:53,780 --> 00:52:48,180
it so I you know I know that what I'm

1251
00:52:55,370 --> 00:52:53,790
bringing in is true and correct but you

1252
00:52:56,870 --> 00:52:55,380
know and everybody has their area of

1253
00:52:58,880 --> 00:52:56,880
expertise you have your area of

1254
00:53:00,350 --> 00:52:58,890
expertise and what you do right you know

1255
00:53:02,060 --> 00:53:00,360
that you you know you could probably do

1256
00:53:04,310 --> 00:53:02,070
other podcasts as well but this is what

1257
00:53:07,340 --> 00:53:04,320
you choose to do so it's you know I

1258
00:53:08,890 --> 00:53:07,350
think it's sort of like that fair enough

1259
00:53:10,870 --> 00:53:08,900
let's see we've covered

1260
00:53:13,990 --> 00:53:10,880
a lot of the topics on my little

1261
00:53:17,170 --> 00:53:14,000
skeptical jeopardy board are there any

1262
00:53:20,620 --> 00:53:17,180
other ones that you feel we might want

1263
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:20,630
to talk about well you know we can talk

1264
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:23,930
a little bit about NDE after-effects we

1265
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:26,330
can talk about the cross culture in

1266
00:53:32,290 --> 00:53:29,930
terms of people having near-death

1267
00:53:35,290 --> 00:53:32,300
experiences across cultures because that

1268
00:53:38,230 --> 00:53:35,300
does happen it affects young and old it

1269
00:53:40,300 --> 00:53:38,240
affects people all around the world but

1270
00:53:43,630 --> 00:53:40,310
I just make a few comments about mde

1271
00:53:46,030 --> 00:53:43,640
after-effects yeah thank you so in my

1272
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:46,040
book life after near-death I focused on

1273
00:53:53,500 --> 00:53:49,010
the physiologic and cognitive

1274
00:53:56,890 --> 00:53:53,510
after-effects because I wanted to do

1275
00:53:58,480 --> 00:53:56,900
research on changes that could be

1276
00:54:00,490 --> 00:53:58,490
validated you know again we're getting

1277
00:54:01,810 --> 00:54:00,500
back to that idea of validation because

1278
00:54:04,180 --> 00:54:01,820
many people come back from these

1279
00:54:05,560 --> 00:54:04,190
experiences these transformational

1280
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:05,570
experiences and they say I'm more

1281
00:54:10,510 --> 00:54:08,450
spiritual now or I'm psychic now well

1282
00:54:12,250 --> 00:54:10,520
okay there's no way for me to measure

1283
00:54:13,990 --> 00:54:12,260
that I don't know how spiritual you were

1284
00:54:16,030 --> 00:54:14,000
before and how spiritual you are now I

1285
00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:16,040
can't measure it but if you have

1286
00:54:20,290 --> 00:54:18,050
somebody who comes back and says my

1287
00:54:22,180 --> 00:54:20,300
hearing is enhanced and they had a

1288
00:54:25,030 --> 00:54:22,190
hearing test before their MDE and the

1289
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:25,040
hearing test after their MDE that can be

1290
00:54:29,770 --> 00:54:26,930
measured and it can you know it's

1291
00:54:32,500 --> 00:54:29,780
demonstrable and it's it's proven and

1292
00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:32,510
that was very important to me because I

1293
00:54:37,330 --> 00:54:34,370
wanted to you know talk about these

1294
00:54:39,100 --> 00:54:37,340
experiences and not have medical science

1295
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:39,110
say that couldn't happen because you

1296
00:54:44,380 --> 00:54:41,450
know in fact if you have if you have the

1297
00:54:46,420 --> 00:54:44,390
medical data you know then it's a

1298
00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:46,430
different kind of discussion right onto

1299
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:48,770
that and again that's just kind of a

1300
00:54:54,030 --> 00:54:52,490
cool way that you approach it let's talk

1301
00:54:58,090 --> 00:54:54,040
a little bit about the integration

1302
00:55:01,570 --> 00:54:58,100
problems because you talked about it in

1303
00:55:04,570 --> 00:55:01,580
one way in the book and more in the

1304
00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:04,580
first book than in the second book diary

1305
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:06,650
of a death doula because that's more

1306
00:55:13,510 --> 00:55:09,890
about this hospice experience but people

1307
00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:13,520
do have challenges integrating the

1308
00:55:16,720 --> 00:55:15,050
experience of a spiritually

1309
00:55:19,810 --> 00:55:16,730
transformative experience whether it be

1310
00:55:21,940 --> 00:55:19,820
a NDE or a shared near-death experience

1311
00:55:22,750 --> 00:55:21,950
you know where that's more relating to

1312
00:55:24,970 --> 00:55:22,760
your hospice or

1313
00:55:26,680 --> 00:55:24,980
or someone's in the room and they have

1314
00:55:30,490 --> 00:55:26,690
this experience as their loved one

1315
00:55:32,380 --> 00:55:30,500
passes and that the numbers are kind of

1316
00:55:35,349 --> 00:55:32,390
startling and can be upsetting for

1317
00:55:37,030 --> 00:55:35,359
people much higher divorce rate people

1318
00:55:38,650 --> 00:55:37,040
have these STS and they come back and I

1319
00:55:42,099 --> 00:55:38,660
wind up getting divorced and I say you

1320
00:55:44,290 --> 00:55:42,109
know my spouse just couldn't I was a new

1321
00:55:46,720 --> 00:55:44,300
person but but I wasn't the person they

1322
00:55:51,010 --> 00:55:46,730
married kind of thing and other problems

1323
00:55:52,630 --> 00:55:51,020
you know as dr. PMH Atwater who you is

1324
00:55:55,540 --> 00:55:52,640
in the bibliography one of your books

1325
00:55:57,790 --> 00:55:55,550
she's researched this as well and has

1326
00:55:59,859 --> 00:55:57,800
said okay here's another problem people

1327
00:56:01,690 --> 00:55:59,869
have as they go through this evangelical

1328
00:56:04,750 --> 00:56:01,700
phase they come back and they're like oh

1329
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:04,760
my gosh I have to tell everyone and then

1330
00:56:08,710 --> 00:56:06,890
you even have stories of that and that

1331
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:08,720
doesn't always work so great either

1332
00:56:13,750 --> 00:56:11,330
tapping somebody on the shoulder in the

1333
00:56:16,720 --> 00:56:13,760
line at the grocery store and telling

1334
00:56:19,540 --> 00:56:16,730
them about your communication with right

1335
00:56:22,870 --> 00:56:19,550
now in the present with the extended

1336
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:22,880
realm doesn't necessarily fit well into

1337
00:56:28,570 --> 00:56:25,570
life so do you want to talk about

1338
00:56:31,660 --> 00:56:28,580
integration problems and maybe as a

1339
00:56:33,250 --> 00:56:31,670
medium how you deal with your own how

1340
00:56:34,810 --> 00:56:33,260
you dealt with your own integration

1341
00:56:39,390 --> 00:56:34,820
problems and how you deal with them

1342
00:56:42,010 --> 00:56:39,400
today yeah okay good great question so

1343
00:56:43,630 --> 00:56:42,020
you know people often say to me how can

1344
00:56:45,490 --> 00:56:43,640
I have one of those MDEs

1345
00:56:47,770 --> 00:56:45,500
they sound so great that's gonna be

1346
00:56:49,599 --> 00:56:47,780
that's exactly what I need and I say you

1347
00:56:51,490 --> 00:56:49,609
don't really want one you know this is

1348
00:56:53,500 --> 00:56:51,500
not what it's you know cut out to be

1349
00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:53,510
it's not what you see on TV or in the

1350
00:56:58,660 --> 00:56:55,490
movies it's not all butterflies and

1351
00:57:01,830 --> 00:56:58,670
flowers you know the thing is and I I

1352
00:57:05,230 --> 00:57:01,840
don't have an answer for this I have an

1353
00:57:06,940 --> 00:57:05,240
idea but I don't have the answer you

1354
00:57:11,770 --> 00:57:06,950
know it's almost like the universe is

1355
00:57:13,599 --> 00:57:11,780
taking these people and I feel like the

1356
00:57:15,670 --> 00:57:13,609
universe kind of has their eye on people

1357
00:57:17,590 --> 00:57:15,680
and you know who could be a potential

1358
00:57:19,930 --> 00:57:17,600
missionary for us a missionary for the

1359
00:57:21,730 --> 00:57:19,940
light and it just at the exact moment

1360
00:57:24,310 --> 00:57:21,740
because you can't give yourself an NDE

1361
00:57:26,050 --> 00:57:24,320
it at the exact exquisite moment they're

1362
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:26,060
taken and they have their NDE and then

1363
00:57:30,310 --> 00:57:28,010
they're plop back into their body and

1364
00:57:31,990 --> 00:57:30,320
they're back on earth and they say what

1365
00:57:33,580 --> 00:57:32,000
the hell happened what now what do I do

1366
00:57:35,010 --> 00:57:33,590
well the first thing they do is they run

1367
00:57:37,740 --> 00:57:35,020
off and tell somebody who thinks

1368
00:57:39,990 --> 00:57:37,750
you know crazy so they learn it takes a

1369
00:57:42,470 --> 00:57:40,000
period usually a process of about seven

1370
00:57:44,730 --> 00:57:42,480
years to learn to integrate this and

1371
00:57:46,560 --> 00:57:44,740
there are so many changes you know

1372
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:46,570
they've been flipped upside down and

1373
00:57:53,340 --> 00:57:50,410
it's really very difficult when I read

1374
00:57:56,970 --> 00:57:53,350
for the first person I read for who had

1375
00:57:59,070 --> 00:57:56,980
these NDE after-effects and was sort of

1376
00:58:01,140 --> 00:57:59,080
the jumping-off point for my book life

1377
00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:01,150
after near-death I said to him in the

1378
00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:04,450
reading how do you live with this and he

1379
00:58:12,930 --> 00:58:08,170
said it's very difficult and now this

1380
00:58:15,630 --> 00:58:12,940
person still has his day job he's kind

1381
00:58:17,580 --> 00:58:15,640
of a well-known guy and he still has his

1382
00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:17,590
day job but that's very unusual most

1383
00:58:20,880 --> 00:58:19,330
people who have these experiences go

1384
00:58:24,780 --> 00:58:20,890
into something else you know they go

1385
00:58:26,520 --> 00:58:24,790
become massage for making masters or you

1386
00:58:27,870 --> 00:58:26,530
know psychics or mediums or you know

1387
00:58:30,480 --> 00:58:27,880
something where they could spread the

1388
00:58:32,100 --> 00:58:30,490
light it's it's very difficult and you

1389
00:58:33,660 --> 00:58:32,110
know the thing is it sounds like it's

1390
00:58:37,260 --> 00:58:33,670
such a great idea to have this

1391
00:58:41,160 --> 00:58:37,270
transformation and but I often think

1392
00:58:43,710 --> 00:58:41,170
this is a universes idea and the issue

1393
00:58:45,720 --> 00:58:43,720
is we live here on earth we live on

1394
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:45,730
earth we were built to be material

1395
00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:48,970
physical beings on earth and we come

1396
00:58:53,790 --> 00:58:51,970
back with titrated in a different way

1397
00:58:55,440 --> 00:58:53,800
we're made up with constituting a

1398
00:58:57,420 --> 00:58:55,450
different way and we're not constituted

1399
00:58:59,220 --> 00:58:57,430
for life on earth that's an important

1400
00:59:00,270 --> 00:58:59,230
change because you know you've been

1401
00:59:03,470 --> 00:59:00,280
doing this for a while I've been doing

1402
00:59:06,390 --> 00:59:03,480
it for a little while - yeah it's really

1403
00:59:09,450 --> 00:59:06,400
heartening and encouraging to see that

1404
00:59:11,130 --> 00:59:09,460
there is that support because especially

1405
00:59:13,530 --> 00:59:11,140
we come back you know we talk about

1406
00:59:15,690 --> 00:59:13,540
cross culture you know a lot of cultures

1407
00:59:17,910 --> 00:59:15,700
if this wasn't part of the existing

1408
00:59:20,970 --> 00:59:17,920
belief system and you came back and said

1409
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:20,980
hey let me tell you about my NDE it was

1410
00:59:26,130 --> 00:59:22,930
worse than disbelief it was you know

1411
00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:26,140
let's stone you you've had some and and

1412
00:59:30,750 --> 00:59:27,970
there's variations of that kind of

1413
00:59:33,150 --> 00:59:30,760
throughout history and even in our

1414
00:59:36,300 --> 00:59:33,160
society I mean I think 50 years ago you

1415
00:59:38,550 --> 00:59:36,310
know you you could wind up in some kind

1416
00:59:40,800 --> 00:59:38,560
of mental institution oh no question

1417
00:59:42,120 --> 00:59:40,810
it's absolutely no question I mean we're

1418
00:59:45,060 --> 00:59:42,130
going through a little bit of a sweet

1419
00:59:47,150 --> 00:59:45,070
spot right now culturally you know about

1420
00:59:49,220 --> 00:59:47,160
all these experiences and

1421
00:59:51,320 --> 00:59:49,230
I think people who've written books and

1422
00:59:52,850 --> 00:59:51,330
who come on podcasts like yours and

1423
00:59:54,680 --> 00:59:52,860
who've talked about it people didn't

1424
00:59:57,200 --> 00:59:54,690
talk about this 10 years ago but they're

1425
01:00:01,360 --> 00:59:57,210
talking about it now and I really credit

1426
01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:01,370
of an Alexander for that I think I think

1427
01:00:05,780 --> 01:00:03,810
and this may sound really crazy but I

1428
01:00:07,010 --> 01:00:05,790
think he was pretty much chosen to be

1429
01:00:09,560 --> 01:00:07,020
this you know to be the poster boy

1430
01:00:11,530 --> 01:00:09,570
because who would be a better poster boy

1431
01:00:14,630 --> 01:00:11,540
for this experience and a Harvard

1432
01:00:16,670 --> 01:00:14,640
neurosurgeon right you know he appears

1433
01:00:19,670 --> 01:00:16,680
to have that instant credibility he's a

1434
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:19,680
scientist and from Harvard I mean the

1435
01:00:23,990 --> 01:00:20,810
pre you know one of the preeminent

1436
01:00:26,570 --> 01:00:24,000
institutions so he kind of paved the way

1437
01:00:28,550 --> 01:00:26,580
and I feel like people's people who've

1438
01:00:30,590 --> 01:00:28,560
had this experiences have said well you

1439
01:00:33,190 --> 01:00:30,600
know if he could talk about it I could

1440
01:00:36,680 --> 01:00:33,200
talk about it too interesting about dr.

1441
01:00:40,820 --> 01:00:36,690
Alexander is that I think it also drew

1442
01:00:44,450 --> 01:00:40,830
attention to the push back the organized

1443
01:00:46,550 --> 01:00:44,460
systematic push back among science

1444
01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:46,560
because I think a lot of people couldn't

1445
01:00:52,790 --> 01:00:49,290
square that I know I highlighted it over

1446
01:00:55,820 --> 01:00:52,800
and over again to show it's like why why

1447
01:00:58,790 --> 01:00:55,830
is he all of a sudden being debunked on

1448
01:01:02,090 --> 01:00:58,800
the cover of Esquire magazine what what

1449
01:01:03,920 --> 01:01:02,100
raises this one person's account of a

1450
01:01:06,320 --> 01:01:03,930
personal experience they have to that

1451
01:01:08,510 --> 01:01:06,330
level why is that so threatening and

1452
01:01:11,900 --> 01:01:08,520
then if you really take a step back and

1453
01:01:13,550 --> 01:01:11,910
you say gee this scientific materialism

1454
01:01:16,540 --> 01:01:13,560
that's been kind of jammed down our

1455
01:01:19,160 --> 01:01:16,550
throat that doesn't make a ton of sense

1456
01:01:21,760 --> 01:01:19,170
philosophically seems to be on a little

1457
01:01:25,160 --> 01:01:21,770
bit too shaky ground given some of the

1458
01:01:27,880 --> 01:01:25,170
scientific anomalies we see and you get

1459
01:01:31,310 --> 01:01:27,890
a different picture of how desperate

1460
01:01:34,820 --> 01:01:31,320
certain groups are to promote a certain

1461
01:01:37,340 --> 01:01:34,830
dogma that has crumbled right in front

1462
01:01:40,790 --> 01:01:37,350
of our eyes and if another thing about

1463
01:01:44,870 --> 01:01:40,800
dr. Alexander he was he was a good guy

1464
01:01:49,340 --> 01:01:44,880
to stand up to that cult and deal with

1465
01:01:52,400 --> 01:01:49,350
it and expose it because I think people

1466
01:01:53,120 --> 01:01:52,410
saw it and they were like something's

1467
01:01:56,360 --> 01:01:53,130
not right

1468
01:01:57,980 --> 01:01:56,370
they're calling this guy they're calling

1469
01:01:59,780 --> 01:01:57,990
this guy into question because he

1470
01:02:00,890 --> 01:01:59,790
doesn't have qualifications that was one

1471
01:02:02,720 --> 01:02:00,900
of the first things and we

1472
01:02:04,640 --> 01:02:02,730
we're like saying what you said but did

1473
01:02:06,560 --> 01:02:04,650
you just say he's a Harvard neurosurgeon

1474
01:02:07,460 --> 01:02:06,570
he's a brain scientist from Harvard and

1475
01:02:10,070 --> 01:02:07,470
you're saying he doesn't have

1476
01:02:11,030 --> 01:02:10,080
qualifications it really showed how

1477
01:02:14,090 --> 01:02:11,040
phony

1478
01:02:19,610 --> 01:02:14,100
some of that skepticism was yeah well I

1479
01:02:21,230 --> 01:02:19,620
mean people have they'd like to protect

1480
01:02:23,540 --> 01:02:21,240
their institutions they have a lot

1481
01:02:25,550 --> 01:02:23,550
invested in them you know if you have

1482
01:02:28,310 --> 01:02:25,560
spent your whole career being trained to

1483
01:02:29,840 --> 01:02:28,320
do you know certain thing you're not but

1484
01:02:34,310 --> 01:02:29,850
you know you're going to defend it if

1485
01:02:38,630 --> 01:02:34,320
it's if there's real livelihood yeah

1486
01:02:41,150 --> 01:02:38,640
yeah I mean I I get that yeah I mean in

1487
01:02:42,980 --> 01:02:41,160
terms of Esquire I mean they're in the

1488
01:02:44,840 --> 01:02:42,990
business of journalism you know and it

1489
01:02:47,270 --> 01:02:44,850
was it's a good story it's you know to

1490
01:02:49,910 --> 01:02:47,280
have a different different story out

1491
01:02:51,020 --> 01:02:49,920
there I think you know he's sort of like

1492
01:02:52,850 --> 01:02:51,030
what we would have called in the

1493
01:02:55,820 --> 01:02:52,860
investment business a headliner stock

1494
01:02:58,070 --> 01:02:55,830
you know you know he's a marquee figure

1495
01:03:00,800 --> 01:02:58,080
and you know s Square is not going to

1496
01:03:02,380 --> 01:03:00,810
write a story about somebody who you

1497
01:03:05,300 --> 01:03:02,390
know it doesn't have that kind of

1498
01:03:09,100 --> 01:03:05,310
platform of prominence but he did I

1499
01:03:12,110 --> 01:03:09,110
could buy that more if I hadn't covered

1500
01:03:14,420 --> 01:03:12,120
similar stories for the five years

1501
01:03:16,610 --> 01:03:14,430
previous on that in terms of there's

1502
01:03:19,330 --> 01:03:16,620
more in academic circles but just in

1503
01:03:21,890 --> 01:03:19,340
terms of these really rather silly

1504
01:03:24,380 --> 01:03:21,900
counter-arguments to NDE science being

1505
01:03:26,210 --> 01:03:24,390
published in respected peer-reviewed

1506
01:03:29,270 --> 01:03:26,220
journals and you have these people on

1507
01:03:31,640 --> 01:03:29,280
and you say you've totally misquoted him

1508
01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:31,650
gone Lama for example no that's not

1509
01:03:36,800 --> 01:03:34,170
what's dr. Sam Varney has said in his

1510
01:03:39,200 --> 01:03:36,810
research I mean this is just sloppy crap

1511
01:03:41,240 --> 01:03:39,210
that slips through and I just this is

1512
01:03:43,880 --> 01:03:41,250
personal opinion I don't think it can

1513
01:03:46,550 --> 01:03:43,890
all be chalked up for someone guarding

1514
01:03:50,030 --> 01:03:46,560
their turf I think there was something

1515
01:03:53,900 --> 01:03:50,040
more in terms of just seeing how really

1516
01:03:56,990 --> 01:03:53,910
threatening this one particular thing

1517
01:03:59,960 --> 01:03:57,000
near-death experience was to this

1518
01:04:01,820 --> 01:03:59,970
underlying paradigm of scientific

1519
01:04:04,130 --> 01:04:01,830
materialism because it really gets to

1520
01:04:06,440 --> 01:04:04,140
the heart of it in a way that for

1521
01:04:08,270 --> 01:04:06,450
example parapsychology never did I mean

1522
01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:08,280
parapsychology was out there for the

1523
01:04:12,620 --> 01:04:09,930
longest time and if you really

1524
01:04:14,900 --> 01:04:12,630
understood it you said well that really

1525
01:04:17,930 --> 01:04:14,910
pierces the Pierces the bubble

1526
01:04:19,880 --> 01:04:17,940
of scientific materialism but when NDE

1527
01:04:22,700 --> 01:04:19,890
science started happening even before

1528
01:04:25,880 --> 01:04:22,710
eben Alexander they whoever they are

1529
01:04:28,069 --> 01:04:25,890
recognized that this is a change that we

1530
01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:28,079
can't allow to happen that's how I saw

1531
01:04:31,010 --> 01:04:28,410
it

1532
01:04:32,510 --> 01:04:31,020
reported him yeah well you know I

1533
01:04:34,910 --> 01:04:32,520
thought it was interesting when I wrote

1534
01:04:36,980 --> 01:04:34,920
my first book I went on Amazon and I

1535
01:04:38,990 --> 01:04:36,990
counted how many books had been

1536
01:04:41,720 --> 01:04:39,000
published on near-death experiences and

1537
01:04:44,089 --> 01:04:41,730
there was Raymond Raymond Moody's book

1538
01:04:45,890 --> 01:04:44,099
and Evan Alexander's work and a handful

1539
01:04:47,660 --> 01:04:45,900
of other books and then when I was

1540
01:04:49,250 --> 01:04:47,670
writing my second book I went back to

1541
01:04:51,740 --> 01:04:49,260
Amazon and counted the number of books

1542
01:04:54,680 --> 01:04:51,750
on NDEs and there were I don't know

1543
01:04:56,359 --> 01:04:54,690
hundreds I think 400 books and that

1544
01:04:58,750 --> 01:04:56,369
probably doesn't even include all these

1545
01:05:01,190 --> 01:04:58,760
self-published books you know but

1546
01:05:03,230 --> 01:05:01,200
there's just been an explosion and I

1547
01:05:06,440 --> 01:05:03,240
think that's good but I feel like my job

1548
01:05:08,720 --> 01:05:06,450
is not to convince anybody my job is you

1549
01:05:11,960 --> 01:05:08,730
know to do my work and to do good work

1550
01:05:13,730 --> 01:05:11,970
and you know this is how I operated in

1551
01:05:15,410 --> 01:05:13,740
the investment business I mean I didn't

1552
01:05:16,970 --> 01:05:15,420
know back then that I was a psychic but

1553
01:05:18,589 --> 01:05:16,980
I was I would come up with ideas that

1554
01:05:20,900 --> 01:05:18,599
were always ten years ahead of everyone

1555
01:05:22,910 --> 01:05:20,910
else and the first couple of years when

1556
01:05:24,230 --> 01:05:22,920
I was in the business people would just

1557
01:05:26,210 --> 01:05:24,240
scratch their head and say we don't know

1558
01:05:27,859 --> 01:05:26,220
what she's talking about and then after

1559
01:05:28,970 --> 01:05:27,869
a few years they'd say we still don't

1560
01:05:33,500 --> 01:05:28,980
know what you're talking about but

1561
01:05:35,120 --> 01:05:33,510
what's your next idea so because then I

1562
01:05:37,039 --> 01:05:35,130
had a track record you know the things

1563
01:05:38,720 --> 01:05:37,049
that I was working on the things that I

1564
01:05:40,519 --> 01:05:38,730
you know I said this is something we

1565
01:05:42,740 --> 01:05:40,529
need to own and they'd say why and I'd

1566
01:05:45,200 --> 01:05:42,750
say cuz it's gonna be big you know and

1567
01:05:46,849 --> 01:05:45,210
then ten years later it was big so I I'm

1568
01:05:49,849 --> 01:05:46,859
not trying to sell anything I'm just

1569
01:05:51,529 --> 01:05:49,859
doing my work and you know you could you

1570
01:05:54,589 --> 01:05:51,539
takes you know you what's the expression

1571
01:05:57,470 --> 01:05:54,599
you pays your money you takes your

1572
01:05:59,390 --> 01:05:57,480
choice so you know you can believe it or

1573
01:06:00,799 --> 01:05:59,400
not believe it I mean I'm just I'm just

1574
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:00,809
like everybody else out there who's

1575
01:06:04,910 --> 01:06:02,010
written books and who's doing research

1576
01:06:06,799 --> 01:06:04,920
really by Sheryl and other people who

1577
01:06:10,220 --> 01:06:06,809
are legitimate researchers you know

1578
01:06:12,380 --> 01:06:10,230
we're doing this work and and and in the

1579
01:06:15,380 --> 01:06:12,390
best of all circumstances it will be it

1580
01:06:18,829 --> 01:06:15,390
will be left as legacy for us right you

1581
01:06:21,589 --> 01:06:18,839
know there I have had long track record

1582
01:06:23,960 --> 01:06:21,599
of people not paying attention to what I

1583
01:06:25,700 --> 01:06:23,970
do that's sort of the story that was the

1584
01:06:27,510 --> 01:06:25,710
story of my investment worked for a

1585
01:06:29,670 --> 01:06:27,520
number of years and then

1586
01:06:31,890 --> 01:06:29,680
barbell swung to the other side once

1587
01:06:34,680 --> 01:06:31,900
once you know so much of what I did

1588
01:06:36,690 --> 01:06:34,690
turned out to be accurate and correct

1589
01:06:39,330 --> 01:06:36,700
and all that and ahead of the time so

1590
01:06:41,070 --> 01:06:39,340
that was when people would come at me

1591
01:06:43,290 --> 01:06:41,080
and I mean I was recruited by George

1592
01:06:46,770 --> 01:06:43,300
Soros to George to join his team of

1593
01:06:48,420 --> 01:06:46,780
managers and which I didn't do but you

1594
01:06:50,550 --> 01:06:48,430
know I would say to myself when these

1595
01:06:52,830 --> 01:06:50,560
things would happen I'm still the same

1596
01:06:54,390 --> 01:06:52,840
person I'm still the same person who did

1597
01:06:56,400 --> 01:06:54,400
the pick-and-shovel work on the front

1598
01:06:58,170 --> 01:06:56,410
end and I'm still the same person who's

1599
01:07:01,290 --> 01:06:58,180
now been recognized for doing this work

1600
01:07:03,120 --> 01:07:01,300
I'm still and you know my my philosophy

1601
01:07:06,870 --> 01:07:03,130
is I just keep my head down I try to do

1602
01:07:09,780 --> 01:07:06,880
the best work I can nice awesome you've

1603
01:07:12,300 --> 01:07:09,790
been super open and generous with your

1604
01:07:14,580 --> 01:07:12,310
time I'm gonna try and pull in one more

1605
01:07:19,410 --> 01:07:14,590
category and then we'll wrap this up

1606
01:07:22,350 --> 01:07:19,420
today as above so below is what I titled

1607
01:07:25,680 --> 01:07:22,360
this as and you know one of the

1608
01:07:27,120 --> 01:07:25,690
questions I keep returning to because I

1609
01:07:30,300 --> 01:07:27,130
don't think it should be as

1610
01:07:33,510 --> 01:07:30,310
controversial as it is because to me the

1611
01:07:35,850 --> 01:07:33,520
data speaks to this very clearly I

1612
01:07:38,490 --> 01:07:35,860
always reference dr. Jeffrey Wong

1613
01:07:40,250 --> 01:07:38,500
radiation oncologist who's compiled the

1614
01:07:43,350 --> 01:07:40,260
largest database of near-death

1615
01:07:45,210 --> 01:07:43,360
experiences I know him he endorsed my

1616
01:07:48,290 --> 01:07:45,220
first book I know Jeffrey and and his

1617
01:07:51,300 --> 01:07:48,300
wife nice great people

1618
01:07:53,760 --> 01:07:51,310
researchers no religious agenda the

1619
01:07:56,340 --> 01:07:53,770
title of his second book God in the

1620
01:07:59,070 --> 01:07:56,350
afterlife what he reports over and over

1621
01:08:02,940 --> 01:07:59,080
again is a hierarchical structure of

1622
01:08:05,190 --> 01:08:02,950
higher realms that suggest God that's

1623
01:08:07,170 --> 01:08:05,200
what people report I don't know what to

1624
01:08:09,900 --> 01:08:07,180
make of it I don't know what God means

1625
01:08:12,540 --> 01:08:09,910
I'm not trying to trigger anybody but

1626
01:08:15,840 --> 01:08:12,550
that's what seems to be reported now in

1627
01:08:18,960 --> 01:08:15,850
a lot of the circles that I fall in

1628
01:08:21,300 --> 01:08:18,970
which may be over the wrong circles that

1629
01:08:23,130 --> 01:08:21,310
always sets people off

1630
01:08:25,559 --> 01:08:23,140
hey I'm not sure that there's God

1631
01:08:27,690 --> 01:08:25,569
there's multiple contact modalities

1632
01:08:29,550 --> 01:08:27,700
there's just this blob of consciousness

1633
01:08:31,950 --> 01:08:29,560
there's no order to it there's no

1634
01:08:34,650 --> 01:08:31,960
structure to it it's just is what it is

1635
01:08:38,760 --> 01:08:34,660
kind of thing I'm okay with that

1636
01:08:41,390 --> 01:08:38,770
but what I read from the data from in

1637
01:08:43,610 --> 01:08:41,400
particular the near-death experience day

1638
01:08:46,160 --> 01:08:43,620
which seems to address this topic

1639
01:08:50,720 --> 01:08:46,170
slightly differently than other data it

1640
01:08:54,530 --> 01:08:50,730
says yes to higher realms it says yes to

1641
01:08:59,120 --> 01:08:54,540
structure ordered moral imperative good

1642
01:09:01,010 --> 01:08:59,130
bad so let's talk about that a little

1643
01:09:04,070 --> 01:09:01,020
bit I'd love to hear what you think

1644
01:09:07,100 --> 01:09:04,080
about that well I think you know from my

1645
01:09:11,480 --> 01:09:07,110
work both in the NDE world and in

1646
01:09:15,650 --> 01:09:11,490
hospice you know I would echo what you

1647
01:09:19,220 --> 01:09:15,660
what you just said that you have these

1648
01:09:21,230 --> 01:09:19,230
structured higher realms and I think

1649
01:09:22,760 --> 01:09:21,240
when you bring up the topic you know

1650
01:09:25,760 --> 01:09:22,770
there are certain topics that set people

1651
01:09:27,320 --> 01:09:25,770
off in any you know in any group of

1652
01:09:28,880 --> 01:09:27,330
people if you bring up politics or

1653
01:09:30,850 --> 01:09:28,890
religion you know you're going to get

1654
01:09:34,300 --> 01:09:30,860
you can get some pretty dramatic

1655
01:09:36,350 --> 01:09:34,310
responses so I think the same is true

1656
01:09:38,150 --> 01:09:36,360
here you know in this realm which is

1657
01:09:39,500 --> 01:09:38,160
already kind of a hot button for a lot

1658
01:09:43,730 --> 01:09:39,510
of people

1659
01:09:46,430 --> 01:09:43,740
my experience with nd years and those at

1660
01:09:49,490 --> 01:09:46,440
end of life is that many of them feel

1661
01:09:52,030 --> 01:09:49,500
that they've experienced God or you know

1662
01:09:54,500 --> 01:09:52,040
that and God has a different meaning to

1663
01:09:59,090 --> 01:09:54,510
lots of people but you know they'll say

1664
01:10:00,740 --> 01:09:59,100
that they they met God other people you

1665
01:10:02,660 --> 01:10:00,750
know again this is all filtered through

1666
01:10:04,340 --> 01:10:02,670
individual consciousness or whatever is

1667
01:10:05,900 --> 01:10:04,350
important to them is what they're shown

1668
01:10:07,970 --> 01:10:05,910
that's it's a reflection of their

1669
01:10:10,670 --> 01:10:07,980
consciousness if they were often very

1670
01:10:13,730 --> 01:10:10,680
religious people in life they're NDE or

1671
01:10:15,980 --> 01:10:13,740
their experience at end of life are

1672
01:10:18,230 --> 01:10:15,990
going to reflect that I've sat with

1673
01:10:20,360 --> 01:10:18,240
people at hospice who I know had

1674
01:10:22,280 --> 01:10:20,370
religious upbringing story led religious

1675
01:10:25,370 --> 01:10:22,290
lives because their rooms are decorated

1676
01:10:26,810 --> 01:10:25,380
with all sorts of religious artifacts

1677
01:10:28,430 --> 01:10:26,820
and there are Bibles there and whatnot

1678
01:10:30,230 --> 01:10:28,440
and when they are traveling and

1679
01:10:32,240 --> 01:10:30,240
journeying at end of life they may see

1680
01:10:34,460 --> 01:10:32,250
choirs of angels and they may see

1681
01:10:37,940 --> 01:10:34,470
magnificent structures that represent

1682
01:10:40,100 --> 01:10:37,950
some sort of religious you know quasi

1683
01:10:41,900 --> 01:10:40,110
religious institution that's what they

1684
01:10:44,330 --> 01:10:41,910
are shown but I've also sat with

1685
01:10:44,900 --> 01:10:44,340
atheists and they aren't shown anything

1686
01:10:47,630 --> 01:10:44,910
like that

1687
01:10:49,220 --> 01:10:47,640
so I think you know what you're

1688
01:10:52,370 --> 01:10:49,230
referring to is reflection of each

1689
01:10:54,200 --> 01:10:52,380
person's consciousness and everyone has

1690
01:10:56,150 --> 01:10:54,210
different beliefs here on earth right

1691
01:10:58,070 --> 01:10:56,160
people believe in religion some people

1692
01:11:00,650 --> 01:10:58,080
believe in God some people don't believe

1693
01:11:03,950 --> 01:11:00,660
in any of that and the experience that

1694
01:11:06,560 --> 01:11:03,960
they have as they as their consciousness

1695
01:11:09,380 --> 01:11:06,570
expands is a byproduct of what their

1696
01:11:11,690 --> 01:11:09,390
belief system is so I don't think there

1697
01:11:13,280 --> 01:11:11,700
is one Universal answer to all of this I

1698
01:11:15,500 --> 01:11:13,290
mean I think it's worth listening to

1699
01:11:17,390 --> 01:11:15,510
everybody because everyone's unique and

1700
01:11:19,280 --> 01:11:17,400
their experiences each going to be

1701
01:11:21,580 --> 01:11:19,290
unique and it could be argued up and

1702
01:11:25,040 --> 01:11:21,590
down and sideways and back and forth but

1703
01:11:28,700 --> 01:11:25,050
you're not going to find it's not binary

1704
01:11:32,270 --> 01:11:28,710
it's not something look the world of

1705
01:11:35,870 --> 01:11:32,280
consciousness is not binary the life we

1706
01:11:37,040 --> 01:11:35,880
live on earth is much more binary than

1707
01:11:38,900 --> 01:11:37,050
the you know than the world of

1708
01:11:41,000 --> 01:11:38,910
consciousness that's a world of infinity

1709
01:11:44,390 --> 01:11:41,010
and infinite and infinite possibilities

1710
01:11:47,120 --> 01:11:44,400
so I think trying to apply some of the

1711
01:11:49,600 --> 01:11:47,130
logic that we would use here on earth to

1712
01:11:51,410 --> 01:11:49,610
describe things or understand things is

1713
01:11:54,770 --> 01:11:51,420
problematic when you're dealing with

1714
01:11:56,210 --> 01:11:54,780
consciousness fair enough although you

1715
01:12:00,140 --> 01:11:56,220
did kind of come around full circle

1716
01:12:01,730 --> 01:12:00,150
there in a way that I think is is how

1717
01:12:06,470 --> 01:12:01,740
can it be otherwise because we can't

1718
01:12:08,570 --> 01:12:06,480
know it but can we say there seems to be

1719
01:12:12,290 --> 01:12:08,580
a hierarchy there seems to be a moral

1720
01:12:15,620 --> 01:12:12,300
imperative or should we stick with we

1721
01:12:18,830 --> 01:12:15,630
don't know because it's too complex to

1722
01:12:21,710 --> 01:12:18,840
understand in our puny little time-space

1723
01:12:24,110 --> 01:12:21,720
reality to try and attach those kind of

1724
01:12:28,700 --> 01:12:24,120
words to it and then I have to ask about

1725
01:12:31,940 --> 01:12:28,710
the Jesus thing not because I'm not

1726
01:12:34,100 --> 01:12:31,950
Christian but I've certainly encountered

1727
01:12:37,280 --> 01:12:34,110
look I've encountered near-death

1728
01:12:40,610 --> 01:12:37,290
experiencers that seem to have a strong

1729
01:12:43,490 --> 01:12:40,620
desire to co-opt this entire experience

1730
01:12:45,920 --> 01:12:43,500
to fit with their religious tradition

1731
01:12:47,810 --> 01:12:45,930
and that just isn't supported by the

1732
01:12:50,390 --> 01:12:47,820
data it just isn't you know you talk to

1733
01:12:53,990 --> 01:12:50,400
any NDE researcher they'll say no there

1734
01:12:56,090 --> 01:12:54,000
is no religious primacy to the

1735
01:12:59,420 --> 01:12:56,100
near-death experience on the other hand

1736
01:13:02,600 --> 01:12:59,430
there are some rather compelling cases

1737
01:13:05,090 --> 01:13:02,610
of near-death experiencers who have

1738
01:13:07,400 --> 01:13:05,100
encountered a spirit being who

1739
01:13:10,010 --> 01:13:07,410
identifies as Jesus

1740
01:13:12,890 --> 01:13:10,020
is meaningful to them both during that

1741
01:13:15,850 --> 01:13:12,900
experience and is transformative for

1742
01:13:19,970 --> 01:13:15,860
their experience afterwards and is tied

1743
01:13:21,650 --> 01:13:19,980
to this figure they recognize as Jesus

1744
01:13:23,930 --> 01:13:21,660
so again given everything you said you

1745
01:13:26,690 --> 01:13:23,940
know maybe this is something that can't

1746
01:13:28,390 --> 01:13:26,700
be completely resolved but any thoughts

1747
01:13:31,190 --> 01:13:28,400
you have on that might be interesting

1748
01:13:34,240 --> 01:13:31,200
well in terms of near-death experiences

1749
01:13:36,440 --> 01:13:34,250
these are meant to be teaching lessons

1750
01:13:38,420 --> 01:13:36,450
okay we're getting back to the idea of

1751
01:13:40,010 --> 01:13:38,430
lessons again these are meant to be

1752
01:13:42,380 --> 01:13:40,020
teaching lessons because they're coming

1753
01:13:44,270 --> 01:13:42,390
back to earth after these experiences

1754
01:13:46,370 --> 01:13:44,280
and they're supposed to bring this

1755
01:13:49,010 --> 01:13:46,380
lesson with them so that they can carry

1756
01:13:52,400 --> 01:13:49,020
forth their life in that fashion as they

1757
01:13:54,280 --> 01:13:52,410
go on so you know what is showing them

1758
01:13:56,420 --> 01:13:54,290
is something that's going to be

1759
01:13:58,160 --> 01:13:56,430
significant to them if you take somebody

1760
01:14:02,120 --> 01:13:58,170
who's very religious and they have an

1761
01:14:04,100 --> 01:14:02,130
NDE and they don't meet God and you know

1762
01:14:07,040 --> 01:14:04,110
they don't have maybe even a very

1763
01:14:08,870 --> 01:14:07,050
dramatic experience what do you think

1764
01:14:10,210 --> 01:14:08,880
their lesson is what do you think

1765
01:14:12,140 --> 01:14:10,220
they're going to do when they come back

1766
01:14:14,510 --> 01:14:12,150
are they going to be able to fulfill

1767
01:14:16,850 --> 01:14:14,520
some mission I mean I don't think so

1768
01:14:18,650 --> 01:14:16,860
because if then if they are meant to be

1769
01:14:20,540 --> 01:14:18,660
missionaries for the light they have to

1770
01:14:23,510 --> 01:14:20,550
get the message that appeals to them

1771
01:14:26,330 --> 01:14:23,520
that's tailor-made for them so I think

1772
01:14:28,010 --> 01:14:26,340
that's why people have these NDEs and

1773
01:14:29,720 --> 01:14:28,020
each one is so unique to them and so

1774
01:14:32,240 --> 01:14:29,730
meaningful to them you know they're

1775
01:14:33,350 --> 01:14:32,250
shown exactly the information it's I

1776
01:14:35,000 --> 01:14:33,360
don't know how it's done but it's

1777
01:14:37,820 --> 01:14:35,010
retrieved from their consciousness and

1778
01:14:42,590 --> 01:14:37,830
reflected back to them in a you know

1779
01:14:45,380 --> 01:14:42,600
ultra magnified way and in such a way

1780
01:14:48,500 --> 01:14:45,390
that it has a major impact so that they

1781
01:14:50,210 --> 01:14:48,510
come back transformed so I don't know

1782
01:14:51,980 --> 01:14:50,220
how the process works I don't know who's

1783
01:14:53,300 --> 01:14:51,990
up there pulling the strings and you

1784
01:14:54,980 --> 01:14:53,310
know if there's like a guy like the

1785
01:14:57,800 --> 01:14:54,990
Wizard of Oz you know he's got a machine

1786
01:15:01,040 --> 01:14:57,810
but I don't know you know now we're

1787
01:15:03,470 --> 01:15:01,050
getting into you know why did these NDEs

1788
01:15:05,810 --> 01:15:03,480
happen what's the purpose of them and I

1789
01:15:07,190 --> 01:15:05,820
do I do believe that at least part of

1790
01:15:08,540 --> 01:15:07,200
the purpose is to come back and be a

1791
01:15:11,870 --> 01:15:08,550
missionary for the light and I do

1792
01:15:13,760 --> 01:15:11,880
believe that people are shown what is

1793
01:15:16,070 --> 01:15:13,770
important or significant for them so

1794
01:15:19,190 --> 01:15:16,080
they can come back and and be

1795
01:15:21,050 --> 01:15:19,200
transformed so that I don't know if that

1796
01:15:24,230 --> 01:15:21,060
answers your question

1797
01:15:25,580 --> 01:15:24,240
that's you know based on the based on

1798
01:15:26,990 --> 01:15:25,590
the research I've done I think that's

1799
01:15:28,910 --> 01:15:27,000
the best like you know best answer I

1800
01:15:33,140 --> 01:15:28,920
have awesome

1801
01:15:35,960 --> 01:15:33,150
well this all this work is just really

1802
01:15:37,610 --> 01:15:35,970
really special and I hope people do

1803
01:15:41,060 --> 01:15:37,620
check out the books

1804
01:15:43,190 --> 01:15:41,070
life after near-death which is really

1805
01:15:46,400 --> 01:15:43,200
great really fascinating if you're into

1806
01:15:49,630 --> 01:15:46,410
NDE science kind of stuff strongly

1807
01:15:55,130 --> 01:15:49,640
recommend that and then for an emotional

1808
01:15:58,010 --> 01:15:55,140
kind of hug diary of a death doula is is

1809
01:16:01,610 --> 01:15:58,020
amazing because you feel like you're

1810
01:16:05,660 --> 01:16:01,620
right there doing the hospice work that

1811
01:16:08,090 --> 01:16:05,670
this woman is doing and you know she's

1812
01:16:10,520 --> 01:16:08,100
not asking for a big pat on the back or

1813
01:16:13,130 --> 01:16:10,530
anything but she's just being a service

1814
01:16:15,650 --> 01:16:13,140
and that comes through and it's really

1815
01:16:17,510 --> 01:16:15,660
done in a beautiful way so it's just

1816
01:16:20,150 --> 01:16:17,520
been awesome getting to know you our

1817
01:16:23,990 --> 01:16:20,160
guest has been debra diamond she's very

1818
01:16:26,210 --> 01:16:24,000
easy to find on the web deborah diamond

1819
01:16:28,550 --> 01:16:26,220
psychic and deborah diamond author I

1820
01:16:30,700 --> 01:16:28,560
think are they yeah Debra diamond

1821
01:16:34,340 --> 01:16:30,710
psychic calm they can come to my website

1822
01:16:35,960 --> 01:16:34,350
and you know find out there's

1823
01:16:38,540 --> 01:16:35,970
information on the books and find out

1824
01:16:40,550 --> 01:16:38,550
about my background and and the events I

1825
01:16:42,830 --> 01:16:40,560
do a lot of events so that's also on my

1826
01:16:44,780 --> 01:16:42,840
website you do readings you don't hype

1827
01:16:47,510 --> 01:16:44,790
that very much but you don't have to

1828
01:16:49,580 --> 01:16:47,520
people find you want to connect with you

1829
01:16:52,070 --> 01:16:49,590
want to have a Skype session with you

1830
01:16:54,560 --> 01:16:52,080
into a reading and you still do yeah I

1831
01:16:56,330 --> 01:16:54,570
do readings by Skype and zoom and

1832
01:17:00,470 --> 01:16:56,340
FaceTime and I also do in-person

1833
01:17:01,880 --> 01:17:00,480
readings here in the US both amazing in

1834
01:17:04,580 --> 01:17:01,890
the Baltimore area yeah in the

1835
01:17:05,960 --> 01:17:04,590
mid-atlantic yeah so but I you know I

1836
01:17:08,570 --> 01:17:05,970
read for people all over the world

1837
01:17:12,650 --> 01:17:08,580
because this the the book life after

1838
01:17:15,380 --> 01:17:12,660
near-death you know was it was printed

1839
01:17:17,180 --> 01:17:15,390
internationally so I hear from people

1840
01:17:18,620 --> 01:17:17,190
just probably like you do I hear from

1841
01:17:20,750 --> 01:17:18,630
people all over the world from New

1842
01:17:23,240 --> 01:17:20,760
Zealand and Australia and Africa and

1843
01:17:25,040 --> 01:17:23,250
South America who you know relate their

1844
01:17:28,370 --> 01:17:25,050
experiences to me and many of them have

1845
01:17:30,020 --> 01:17:28,380
readings as well so it's it's it's

1846
01:17:31,640 --> 01:17:30,030
something I didn't expect you know when

1847
01:17:33,440 --> 01:17:31,650
I wrote the book I wrote it because I

1848
01:17:33,680 --> 01:17:33,450
was interested in the topic and I didn't

1849
01:17:37,400 --> 01:17:33,690
I

1850
01:17:38,900 --> 01:17:37,410
didn't know what the you know

1851
01:17:40,310 --> 01:17:38,910
follow-through would be but it's been

1852
01:17:42,680 --> 01:17:40,320
it's been great it's been really

1853
01:17:44,630 --> 01:17:42,690
rewarding and interesting and I love

1854
01:17:47,600 --> 01:17:44,640
hearing from the people so it's you know

1855
01:17:49,180 --> 01:17:47,610
it's it's the cherry on top of the you

1856
01:17:52,610 --> 01:17:49,190
know ice for the sundae

1857
01:17:54,709 --> 01:17:52,620
awesome great well terrific and best of

1858
01:17:56,600 --> 01:17:54,719
luck with all that continued so much

1859
01:17:59,120 --> 01:17:56,610
Alex it's been a pleasure I enjoyed it

1860
01:18:00,920 --> 01:17:59,130
thank you thanks again to Debra diamond

1861
01:18:02,930 --> 01:18:00,930
for joining me today on skeptic oh I

1862
01:18:06,260 --> 01:18:02,940
have one question to tee up from this

1863
01:18:08,180 --> 01:18:06,270
interview and you know I'm reluctant cuz

1864
01:18:10,100 --> 01:18:08,190
it's really not the main focus of her

1865
01:18:12,970 --> 01:18:10,110
terrific work which I really want you to

1866
01:18:17,180 --> 01:18:12,980
check out but it's the thing that keeps

1867
01:18:20,860 --> 01:18:17,190
bugging me and that's how does this fit

1868
01:18:23,570 --> 01:18:20,870
into our larger understanding of

1869
01:18:24,920 --> 01:18:23,580
extended consciousness I was kind of

1870
01:18:27,500 --> 01:18:24,930
surprised when we talked about

1871
01:18:29,630 --> 01:18:27,510
reincarnation and she was like you know

1872
01:18:32,260 --> 01:18:29,640
that isn't really my thing and on one

1873
01:18:35,780 --> 01:18:32,270
hand I accept that that's not her thing

1874
01:18:38,900 --> 01:18:35,790
but why doesn't that come up why doesn't

1875
01:18:42,290 --> 01:18:38,910
ET come up and it comes up for Marissa

1876
01:18:44,450 --> 01:18:42,300
Ryan I mean consciousness extended

1877
01:18:46,640 --> 01:18:44,460
consciousness the only thing we can say

1878
01:18:50,930 --> 01:18:46,650
from so many of the guests we've had on

1879
01:18:53,990 --> 01:18:50,940
is that it's incredibly vast impossible

1880
01:18:57,229 --> 01:18:54,000
to pigeonhole or even understand

1881
01:19:02,090 --> 01:18:57,239
comprehend from our limited time space

1882
01:19:05,060 --> 01:19:02,100
reality but shouldn't the pieces fit

1883
01:19:08,390 --> 01:19:05,070
together a little bit more elegantly at

1884
01:19:11,330 --> 01:19:08,400
times but maybe they shouldn't again her

1885
01:19:13,820 --> 01:19:11,340
work is fantastic and important so if

1886
01:19:16,010 --> 01:19:13,830
you do have a answer if you'd like to

1887
01:19:18,500 --> 01:19:16,020
weigh in on this question I'd love to

1888
01:19:21,380 --> 01:19:18,510
hear you give your answer from the

1889
01:19:23,390 --> 01:19:21,390
perspective of the fantastic work that

1890
01:19:25,430 --> 01:19:23,400
she's done because I think she deserves

1891
01:19:27,860 --> 01:19:25,440
that in terms of what she's accomplished

1892
01:19:29,570 --> 01:19:27,870
here let me know your thoughts you can

1893
01:19:31,220 --> 01:19:29,580
do that of course I'm skeptical for more

1894
01:19:34,010 --> 01:19:31,230
you can comment on YouTube if you're

1895
01:19:36,020 --> 01:19:34,020
watching this on YouTube or just any

1896
01:19:37,670 --> 01:19:36,030
other way you want to find an email for

1897
01:19:39,439 --> 01:19:37,680
me which is real easy to do and send me

1898
01:19:42,439 --> 01:19:39,449
an email I don't know why other people

1899
01:19:44,660 --> 01:19:42,449
are so hard to reach I don't know if

1900
01:19:44,899 --> 01:19:44,670
they're just deluged with millions of

1901
01:19:47,239 --> 01:19:44,909
the

1902
01:19:49,250 --> 01:19:47,249
hils but I don't get millions of emails

1903
01:19:52,640 --> 01:19:49,260
I and the ones that I get that are

1904
01:19:54,830 --> 01:19:52,650
really worth responding to are are very

1905
01:19:57,049 --> 01:19:54,840
manageable so if you have a thought if

1906
01:19:59,270 --> 01:19:57,059
you have a question or comment email me

1907
01:20:01,790 --> 01:19:59,280
love to hear from you I love connecting

1908
01:20:03,949 --> 01:20:01,800
with people who listen to the show the

1909
01:20:07,429 --> 01:20:03,959
show as you know is kind of a narrow

1910
01:20:08,929 --> 01:20:07,439
niche II deep dive show so if you're

1911
01:20:11,929 --> 01:20:08,939
listening to it if you've gotten this

1912
01:20:14,659 --> 01:20:11,939
far you're my people man you're my tribe

1913
01:20:17,479 --> 01:20:14,669
so let me hear from you connect in any

1914
01:20:20,629 --> 01:20:17,489
way you feel is appropriate for you at

1915
01:20:22,159 --> 01:20:20,639
this time and please listen to all the

1916
01:20:24,140 --> 01:20:22,169
previous shows if you think there's any

1917
01:20:26,390 --> 01:20:24,150
in the library that you might like

1918
01:20:29,299 --> 01:20:26,400
they're all available for free for

1919
01:20:31,069 --> 01:20:29,309
download to read if you want to read the

1920
01:20:33,229 --> 01:20:31,079
transcripts the partial transcripts I

1921
01:20:35,390 --> 01:20:33,239
have them visit The Skeptical website

1922
01:20:38,029 --> 01:20:35,400
for that and otherwise if you stick

1923
01:20:39,620 --> 01:20:38,039
around I have more shows coming up and I

1924
01:20:42,859 --> 01:20:39,630
hope you'll stay with me for all of that

1925
01:20:44,680 --> 01:20:42,869
until next time take care and bye for